 Charlie V. Bell |
When should publisher pay for photograph? Hi, A publisher is wanting to use 3 of my photographs- one for a front cover and 2 for the back cover. We have discussed cost for use of 1,3 or 5 photos but she is being vague as to how many they are going to use. I have already sent her the full-size photo for the front cover, and am waiting to hear which photos she requires for the back cover. I have mentioned payment but she says she will only pay when the book is published (this is 9 months away). The second issue here is that the front cover photo (which she has now, in TIFF format), is the finalist in a major photography contest and she has informed me they are using that info to promote to contributors. I slightly feel that they are using my 'success' to their own advantage -- am I to assume that this is entirely normal publishing practice? Sorry, lots of info here- confused as to how to take things from here! There is no contract per se (just emailed suggested prices). Should I be waiting until the book is published for payment though? And, given the 'success' of the photo, am I able to charge more for it -- or that just tough luck? Any help would be much appreciated, thank you!
|
|
|
|
||
- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Payment until after publication does happen. Although I don't think very many photographers feel comfortable emailing anything but small sized files until after the picture choice and pay scale has been agreed upon. Them forwarding information about your contest finalist is actually working to your advantage(as long as it wasn't picture.com contest). As long as you are credited. This is a good time to familiarize yourself with the copyright filing process since they are going to be published, or may be published. And since the finalist tag seems to hold extra value to them, yes you can charge more for it. Charge more for the cover photo than the back cover photos, and the finalist tag raises the rate.
|
|
|
|
||
|
Charlie V. Bell |
Thank you so much Gregory, that is really helpful!
|
|
|
|
||
|
Irene Troy |
Hi Charlie – just to add onto what Gregory has already stated; as a writer who has recently started selling my images with my writing, I can share some important info that I have learned from experience. First; you must have something in writing by the publisher detailing the payment plan and outlining precisely what rights you are selling by providing your images. Are you selling one time rights or what? Do you have the right to submit the images to another publisher or contest? What happens if the book is never published due to circumstances beyond your control or the publisher’s control? If you images are already submitted to a “major national contest” and you win the contest, then what? The fact that the publisher has not confirmed what images she will use or how you will be paid would make me nervous. You really need to get all of this in writing, ASAP. While it is not uncommon for a publisher – particularly a small publisher – to withhold full payment until the release of an article or book, you still need to have a written contract outlining all the details and answering some of the questions I posed. And yes, they are using your success to their advantage, and yes, this is fairly normal publishing procedure. Finally, yes, you can ask for more money if you win the contest and they use your images. Again, you need to have things in writing to avoid future disputes. And, Gregory is correct, now is the time to get your images registered and a copyright issued so that you are protected. BTW: this publisher and the contest, it’s not anything to do with one of those vanity press deals that is covered extensively on this forum, is it? If it is, PLEASE go read the many postings here before you do anything else! Irene
|
|
|
|
||
|
Mark Feldstein |
And to add to what Greg and Irene have said, you need a forms book, something along the lines of the Business Practices for Pro Photographers published and available at ASMP.org. You should customize a "Delivery Memorandum" that outlines the terms and conditions of usage; specifies the number and description of images; the publication, including the size of the image when published; how many copies are to be printed; usage fees; reusage fees, and your licensing agreement. Unless you have a signed contract, if there's a dispute, your goose is essentially cooked. Copyright registration of course, is an excellent suggestion. http://www.copyright.gov look for form VA and instructions. I deal with a few magazine publishers that will pay me when the issue is actually off the press. I let them do that because I've established a working relationship with them over the years and we trust each other. Sometimes some magazines don't get advertisers to pay until publication. Why, I have no idea but that's the nature of the biz. For a vanity press publication, I always get the fees up front. I hate chasing authors for money. The usual reason someone is being "vague" as you mentioned, is because even THEY don't know. In that sense, you've got two choices. You can press them for an answer and write it up in your agreement which you can modify later on. Or you can wait until they figure out what they're doing and then let you know, assuming at that point everyone is still interested in doing biz.
|
|
|
|
||
|
- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
To bring up a quote from somebody regarding how he feels everyone should change their point of view about it, "...you don't sell photos, you sell licensing..." You have to go into this with the mindset of they come to you wanting to use it for the cover and back. Okay, that's what you want, that's all you get, to use it for the cover and back. So anything that occurs that turns into an extended use for the photo, be it a different way of using it or a change in how long they use it, that can be more compensation for you.
|
|
|
|
||
|
Jerry Frazier |
Buy the fotoquote.com software and it will tell you what you should charge. Keep in mind that it does not include your creative fee, this is just the licensing of the images. So, get your licensing fees from the software, add on your creative fee, and that's what you should charge.
|
|
|
|
||
|
Jerry Frazier |
forgot to add that I would NEVER provide an image before I got payment. NEVER, NO WAY, NO HOW, NEVER-EVER-EVER. I don't care if it was Donald Trump and he was good for it.
|
|
|
|
||
|
Mark Feldstein |
Hey Jerry: Donald Trump would be the absolutely LAST guy I would EVER give credit to for anything. Even a cup of coffee. To paraphrase Wimpy: "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a photograph today." 0;>) M
|
|
|
|
||
|
Charlie V. Bell |
Thanks everyone - great advise all round. I have promptly sent email to publisher requesting a contract is written and signed. One thing- my photo is in the New York International Photography Contest -- Irene that isn't what you were talking about was it...? Charlie
|
|
|
|
||
|
Irene Troy |
Charlie – you’ve gotten some excellent advice here, I will add only one other bit of hard earned advice: since this publisher already has your image(s) you really need to protect yourself as best you can. At the very least you need a certified letter sent to the publisher (even if they are nearby and you see them daily) that outlines the terms as you understand them and that provides the terms by which they may use your image. This probably would not stand up in court since it is after the fact, but it is at least some minimal protection for you. The contest, as I understand it, is being sponsored by the New York Institute of Photography, a legitimate school that has a strong online presence. As to the prestige – read selling point – of winning such a contest, I have no real idea. I suspect that it would have meaning, but not, perhaps, as much as winning in say…Nature’s Best…which is more highly regarded, I believe. At any rate, it is legit and would be a kick to win! Irene
|
|
|
|
||
|
Charlie V. Bell |
Thanks Irene. The publisher and I (me in LA, her in Australia) established who had the 'rights' etc at the beginning - however this was just via email. I will send her an actual letter too. Thank you again for your help. And you're right about the NYIP contest, it might not as much selling point as Nature's Best but it's still fun (although a hell of a lot of weirdos/people who have never picked up a camera before seem to apply...) Charlie
|
|
|
|
||
- Carlton Ward Contact Carlton Ward Carlton Ward's Gallery |
Thank you Everyone for this thread. You have all given me much to consider. I have just been asked for photos for a book myself. I will be creating an image of a waterfall with a nude woman blended into the falls. I suppose I can charge more for custom work but the woman who has requested this is my massage therapist and her book is a simple one she is doing herself, so I will probably do this for little $$ (and trade for message)but I will specify she not use the image for anything other that the book and I will retain all rights of the image as with the other images she has asked for.
|
|
|
|
||
|
Irene Troy |
Great Charlie! It sounds like you have things in hand. Re: weirdos and contests; oh yeah! That seems to be the case in just about every contest for any purpose I have seen. The NYIP contest sounds fun and at least it will provide you with exposure which is always helpful. If promoting one self was the sole purpose of a contest I don't think anyone would have much fun. Irene
|
|
|
|
||
|
Charlie V. Bell |
Hello! To all of you that have been so helpful and recommended that the publisher and I sign a contract, one more question if that's ok... Can I download a contract on the internet (the outline, anyway)? For free, if possible..... Cheers
|
|
|
|
||
|
- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Suppose you could, but would a generic form fit to your situation?
|
|
|
|
||
|
This old forum is now archived. Use improved Forum here
Report this Thread |
||