 Kathy A. Brooks |
Does film get old? I used some 35mm film (800 speed) and the photos were very grainy. Can the age of the film be attributed to the lack of quality photos. My guess is the film was about 7 years old.
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Alan N. Marcus |
Hi Kathy, Photographic film consists of a clear plastic base (film) coated on both sizes. The light sensitive goodies are coated on one side and consist of salts of silver. They are crystals that resemble table salt except they are very very tiny. If look at them closely they have a yellowish hue. In their natural state they are sensitive only to blue light. Three salts of silver are available. Silver iodine has the lowest sensitivity to light followed by silver chlorine then silver bromine. Films are made using just one or blends that can contain all three. A fast film is mainly silver bromide. The silver salts are glued onto the plastic film base using highly purified gelatin. Gelatin is transparent, has low solubility and is permeable. Permeability is important because this property allows the fluids of the developing process to percolate in and around and through the structure. Additionally impurities naturally occurring in the gelatin and artificially added change the sensitivity and shape of the silver crystal. “T” grain is a shape like a stepping stone. These crystals are orientated so its flat size is facing the lens. This presents a larger surface area target for the exposing light. Unexposed film needs light to trip off the crystal and render it developable. During exposure light photons struck the crystal and impart energy to change the state of the crystal Fast film means only a few photon hits are required to render the crystal developable while a slow film needs many more hits. Film has a shelf life. Film is not just sensitive to light. Background radiation like gamma rays and the like will expose the film. So can heat, pressure and chemical fumes from things like glue and paint and cleaning compounds etc. Even if no external radiation or environmental chemicals are present, time has an effect. The crystal will slowly chemically self-expose. As film ages its ISO increases as less photo hits will be required in the camera to trip off the crystals. Super fast films are purposely treated by chemical means or controlled exposure to light. Maybe you could call this an artificial ageing. Anyway, it’s called hyper sensitizing, it makes the film faster (higher ISO). In time, almost all of the silver salts will be rendered developable, that’s why film has an expiration date. Rolls of exposed but undeveloped films (80 years old) were discovered at the site of a failed artic expedition. They were carefully developed and the pictures that resulted were first-rate. Likely your old film will reveal an elevated grain structure only because it is faster in ISO than the label would indicate. Alan Marcus (marginal technical gobbledygook)
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Kathy A. Brooks |
Hi Alan, Thank you for the very informative answer. The photos did seem very grainy and dark, now I know why. It was late afternoon and light out but the photos look as if it were dusk or later. Thank you again and I guess I better hit the store for more film before my son's next baseball game! Kathy
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Mark Feldstein |
Hi Kathy. To elaborate a bit on what Alan offered, my first impression is that I'm unaware of any film with an out of the box rating of 800 ISO. Tri-x, for example, non-pro emulsions is rated at 400 whereas Ilford offers film at 400 and 3200, as did Agfa. So, it may be you overrated your film to 800 (by one stop from 400) and then if it was already out of date by a long shot, you may have been underexposing your film by perhaps as much as two or even slightly more f-stops. That would explain the thin negatives and very grainy prints. Film does well if you store it in zip lock freezer bags in it's original container/packaging. Those are filled with inert gasses like nitrogen to help preserve the film and prevent moisture from accumulating. If you need direction on how to defros it or thaw it out before use, just ask us. A lof of photogs. here do that, me included. And sure, new film will go a long way to helping you out. For shooting late afternoon and twilight games, 400 speed film even at 400 ISO or pushed one stop to ISO 800, should be plenty. If you're processing this yourself, let us know. There are some of us who know how you can modify the process somewhat to get better results by developing the film yourself. Alternatively, we can give you some info as to what to tell the lab when you have it processed at whatever speed you shoot it at.
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Christopher A. Walrath |
'Course, me being from the lower end of the photographically financial end of the spectrum from my esteemed colleagues. Your food chain stores and department stores offer consumer films (house brands et al) that are marked ISO800. And probably DX'ed as such for processing and exposure pruposes. However it might be, as Alan and Mark have pointed out, the film is simply ISO400 that they are basically telling you to push and have identified it as needed push processing to match. Hey, Mark, long time no what. How's it going? Alan, been down for a couple of weeks but I'm up now. Got your messages but I think I got it now. SOrry I did not contact you but thank you for the kind offer. Gentlemen, lady. Thank you
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Chris !!! Interesting point about brands jacking up ISOs. You probably hit that one squarely right. Just workin' is all I've been up to. You oughtta Check in at the "Who Should Care and Why" and the Orphan Works threads.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Fuji 800?
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Christopher A. Walrath |
Food Lion, Walgreen's, Rite Aid, Safeway, et al.
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