 Aimee C. Eisaman |
Studio Equipment My husband just told me to buy some studio equipment because I have just really gotten into doing portraits and once winter sets in I will need it! I'm just starting out so I didn't need anything too fancy, but I also wanted to get as much as I could with a smaller amount of money. From shopping around stores in my area, this eBay set is a steal! Let me know what any of you think, please!
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Mark Feldstein |
Aimee, The lights you're looking at are 160 watt seconds per head. I get 200 watt seconds out of my Quantum portable / on camera light. In other words, 160 watt seconds for portraits is like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon. You need depth of field in terms of f-stops to get sharpness - working at, say, f8.0 to f11, for example. At 10 feet from your subject and ISO 100, you'll be hard-pressed to get those numbers. I suggest you look for a small used pack system on eBay like a Norman, Speedotron, 800 watt seconds (w.s), or something with even more pop. Photoflex makes excellent monolights, reasonably priced, in the range of 500 w.s. to 1500 w.s per head. The Calumet Traveler monolights are made by Bowens in England. An excellent product. In sum, it's much better to have more light and switchable to lower output when you need it than less when you really need it, especially if you shoot small groups or multi-person portraits, even two or three people using a reflector card with one lamphead. I like the Bowens monolights like the 1000 w.s. unit I use in a 3x4 foot softbox or Chimera Strip bank. I can switch that power down to 250 w.s. as a fill light when I need to but use a single light to shoot most portraits. (See my web site.) And later, you can always add another light or two to your set-up. They're also very portable, durable, relatively light weight and versatile in terms of available accessories and mounting rings for things like modifiers. I highly recommend that you buy a system you can grow into. I'm pretty sure that my buddy John Siskin will be inclined to agree. (Take a look at his BP lighting course). Meanwhile, save your dough, buy something good that's useful and you won't need to buy twice. IMHO, the lights you're looking at are mainly accessories and not really useful lights at all other than perhaps for fill light or hair or shooting small products at wide f-stops. I wouldn't buy them because chances are they'll fail when you need them most: when you're shooting. Get the better stuff and enjoy your purchase. Avoid buying lighting off eBay unless you REALLY know what you're looking for. It's a lighting jungle out there. Take it light. Mark
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Wow Mark thanks so much for saving me from wasting my money! I kinda figured that all that stuff for that amount of money had a catch! And you can't ask the people selling it because they will lie to you! I'm afraid I haven't seen much used lighting equipment on ebay...if it is good people keep it forever! I will take your advice and stay away from ebay for this purchase since I don't know the ins and outs of lighting! I will take a look at some of the the manufacturers you mentioned! And once again thanks a million!
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- Carlton Ward Contact Carlton Ward Carlton Ward's Gallery |
Hi Aimee, I took John Siskin's An Introduction to Photographic Lighting to help me get an idea of what I needed. I ended up going with Paul Buff's Alien Bees - - and have added more as needed. Cheers, Carlton
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Thanks for the info and website Carlton!
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Well I thought this was going to be easy! LOL! I found something else on ebay used...I really need to get something soon since hubby is allowing me to spend around $500. I want to grab ahold of the opportunity before it disappears! I'm a stay at home mom so I have to jump on these things since I don't exactly get a pay check! If I can start making money doing a portrait here and there then I can take some BP classes that I have been longing for! I also love buying better equipment used! I got my macro lens for $300 and love it! No I can't use the autofocus because I have a Nikon that requires AFS instead of the old AF, but who needs that for macro work! Not I! Well this is the listing on ebay. It already ended, but the seller said he was relisting since nobody bid. He told me everything comes with the kit except the stands...guess he is keeping those for with his other kit! Any other questions I should ask him about this set? Click Here
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Mark Feldstein |
Howdy. For some reason, I always forget about Alien Bees, as Carlton mentioned. Could it be that the Aliens are "foreign" to me? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnoooooooooooo. But they're great lights from what I hear. The Speedotron pack you picked is a good one. It's switchable, I believe you can use it with one head and full power of about 800 W.S. or multi heads it comes with. It's made and serviced by Speedotron on South Racine Ave. in Chicago, very fixable and likewise, a real workhorse. Stands are plentiful and available used (I prefer used "C" stands with a sandbag for stability. Softbox rings are also widely available as are replacement UV flash tubes and modeling lamps. Good price too, even with the dings in the reflectors. Don't sweat those. Umbrellas are good light modifiers to start with. Drop me a note if you want to know how to set the lamphead inside the umbrella. Softboxes can come when you get your next annual bonus, so-to-speak. Be careful when you rig these since they have cords that attach to the pack that can be tripped over. AND if you can get the manual for this pack, either from the seller or Speedotron, be sure to do that and read it thoroughly before plugging it in. While these are pretty straightforward to operate, you need to know the proper technique for switching down or up on the power supply, whether to discharge the pack when you;re through shooting or whether it will dissipate by itself, how to change tubes and modeling lamps, etc., and operating temps. I have a couple of Speedotron packs. They run about 2400 watt seconds each and they're totally reliable under all sorts of conditions. Built like tanks, they weigh a ton but won't disappoint you and as I said, starting with that 802 pack is a good choice, IMHO. You might need some stand adapters for those heads, a set of barndoors or snoots but they're easy to find. Anything else, just let us know.
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Thanks so much for your speedy reply! I did check out the alien Bees and they are very nice looking, but they don't seem to be for sale used anywhere...they may still be too new? Well I'm all about having fun and have been self taught thus far...I'm a geek...love to read and learn so I'm confident that I can figure anything out! I have been doing much research today and found Speedotron to be a household name in lighting and very durable! I like that! YOu have been a wonderful help! I'm going to be putting a bid on this and hope nobody else does! I'm not worried about dings....my husband does auto repair so he can work wonders there if need be! I'll check out the other add ons you mentioned as well. This man didn't photograph everything that comes with it so I may have to wait and see what I have! I will however look into stands and getting the manual before I get this if I win! Awesome talking to you and I'll be adding you to my favorites so I can take a look at your work when I have some more time!
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Mark Feldstein |
One last tip. I know what you mean but for those who may not, a word of caution: Your husband is probably a wonderful, A-1 Indy class mechanic. Power packs, however, are a lot different than the 12 volt (and less) power systems in autos, even the secondary ignition circuits when charged up. A power supply takes AC current, runs it into a series of capacitors, stores high voltage there up to thousands of watts. Inside the cover, a finger placed in the wrong position across a lead or connector, grounded on the other side can kill ya. Getting whacked off the trigger voltage of any strobe or lamphead with an open connector or terminal can be a hair-raising event as well. If you can't cut a deal with the guy on e-bay to sell it now or if you get skanked, take a look at KEH.com for used Speedotron OR the Speedotron website may have some reconditioned packs available. The market is a tad soft right now. If you find one, bargain with them a bit. Helix Photographic upstairs of Speedotron in Chicago, often sells their equipment used as well. Oh and one reason Alien Bees are hard to find used, like other studio brand equipment, is because they're built to last and do what they're supposed to do, over and over and over again. :>))) So photographers hang onto them. I had a little Norman P500 portrait pack I used fairly often for about 14 years. It was going strong when I finally sold it. Have fun Aimee. Still good choice though.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
What about space?
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Yes Mark....I would only have my hubby straighten out dents and such! He is not gung ho on fixing things he knows nothing about because he knows the dangers involved! If I did happen to have a problem with it I would see about getting it repaired by Speedotron people! So far nobody else is bidding! I think it has alot to do with the picture this guy listed! Not that appealing! Not to mention that many new photographers want the new shiny stuff! And Gregory....what do you mean "what about space?" Yes this will require some space to use I'm sure. I have a large living room and this will not be used on a daily basis. Probably more like monthly so the living room with be cleared out, this set up, and then torn down after use! My husband plans on building me a studio in the basement, but who knows when that will get done. He is a very busy man! I also have the option of doing a photo shoot in the hall next door that my inlaws own. I'm a firm believer that where theres a will....theres a way! I am planning on doing some portraits here and there as a side business, but I'm pregnant with my 3rd child so I'm not going to get into anything too drastic yet! I'm mainly getting this to learn on my own kids and do some creative still life things! If I can make a couple bucks here and there shooting other peoples kids then so be it! :)
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Few things make a room feel suddenly small or crowded like trying to set of lights to take pictures. Even with moving furniture to side.
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Ah yes Gregory! I so wish I had a studio to work in! LOL! Well I got outbid on Ebay and don't want to go any higher I think I'll just be getting one or two lights to work with especially since I'm learning unless I come across the deal of the century on something else! Thanks!
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Aimee, I really wish I had checked in earlier. I’ve been busy! Here’s the problem: As you spend more on lights, what you really get is more power, not more features. For instance, almost all monolights, like the Alien Bee or the Calumet Travelite, have the same switches and controls: power, power control, modeling light, modeling light power, trigger and slave. So if you buy a car with only thirty horse power, you shouldn’t expect to learn to drive on the freeway! Really, you should consider starting with one powerful light, perhaps the B1600 from Alien Bee. Check out this article on shooting with one light: www.siskinphoto.com/magazine3a.html. Then you can build up more equipment. Speedotron is excellent equipment, as Mark said. I would certainly buy used power pack equipment from either Speedotron or even Norman (I have a lot of Norman gear). I do not think I would buy most monolight gear used. To continue the car analogy, older cars are easy to work on, plenty of room to work, but newer cars require you to grow more elbows to reach anything. I don’t do strobe repair, but the guy I use to do repairs doesn’t like to work on most monolights. Since I said I have Norman, you have to assume I know a strobe repairman. Also good working monolights are not sold very often, too useful. As Mark mentioned, strobes have dangerous amounts of electricity. It takes about 150 to 250 watt-seconds to defibrillate your heart. Mark and I are talking about strobes with 500 to 1000 watt-seconds of power. Bad to make a mistake. Here is an article on setting up home studios: www.siskinphoto.com/magazine4b.html. And one on making backdrops here at BP: www.betterphoto.com/article.php?id=176. You might want to check out the other articles on my Website! Thanks, John Siskin
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John H. Siskin |
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Well with 1 minute left I decided to make a last bid since only one person had outbid me by 5 dollars. So I won it for $387. I really hope I made a good decision.....I guess we will find out when I get them! This is the description of them he had on his listing: Up for bidding is a Speedotron Lighting Kit complete with a 802B Power Supply, 1 M90, 1 MW3U, 1MW3R and 2 Umbrellas. This is the absolutely perfect kit for the professional who is looking for a great deal or the advance amateur who needs a kit that can handle just about any task. Everything, but the light stands is coming with it so I will have to get some of those. Wondering if the stands my husband used in his old band for speakers will work????? Thanks John for the articles and advice! I don't know what I would do without BetterPhoto! And what was the cement shot done for? Just having fun at 5am?
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John H. Siskin |
I shoot a lot of construction work, along with other things. I like the work, but the hours are bad. thanks, John Siskin
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John H. Siskin |
Ps. Congratulations on your new strobes! Now you can make pictures, not just take pictures. John Siskin
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
It does look happy to be at work! And just look at that pretty blue sky too! I wonder what it looks like on the other side of the camera or shouldn't I even go there! LOL! Thanks John! Keeping my fingers crossed that I don't get ripped off! The guy seemed pretty genuin and had a good ebay record! I need to find good light stands for them so that when I get them I can play!
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Well I just took a look at both of your articles and especially found the one on studio setups informative! I will be making some of those "Walls" with PVC pipe! I'm unsure of what I'm going to do at this point for space. The living room is large, but now that I think about it it is problematic with a huge picture window and all the other junk that goes in a living room. We have an unfinnished basement that can be damp.....can't have that with lighting equipment! Maybe if I sealed off an area and got a dehumidifier? Hmmm! Thanks for all the ideas! I will definitely check out the other articles on your website! I also took a peek at your BP gallery and see you have also done some beautiful architectural work as well! Very Nice!
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Aimee, I am glad you like my images. Damp is a problem, but the picture window isn’t. Strobes give you a fabulous amount of light in a very small fraction of a second, so you could set up to shoot at f16 and 1/200, which would cut out most of the daylight. Be sure to get strobe with real pop. Perhaps the other living room stuff could be props? Thanks, John Siskin
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Oliver Anderson |
Aimee, there is a VERY good reason you can't find used Alien Bee equipment on EBay. 1st not many people sell it because the equip is so reliable. 2nd it sells used for about 10% off the new price so buy it new. If you buy less than high quality you'll find its OK for in studio but if you're gonna be moving it in your car or on location...it needs to be tough. I traveled all around the country and have baggage handlers (fragile stickers) throwing it around....the stuff still is working fine. My advice...learn with 1 light first then add as you become experienced.
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
John, I could just cover the whole entertainment center with a black sheet to avoid reflections from the tv or nicknacks! I also have blinds for the living room window that are white so they may acutally work well in some fashion! I'm not expecting to get awesome shots first thing! I realize how much work learning any new area of photography can be especially since I'm self taught! I'll keep in touch once I get my strobes and play around a little! And Oliver I appreciate the feedback! I was going to go with Alien Bee, but won the whole set of browline speedotrons for under $400. I'm not planning on traveling with them. I'm just a stay at home mom wanting to play around and have some fun! Maybe take some shots of family and friends when they need them at this point!
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Aimee, congrats on your e-bay score ! Stay in touch. M.
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Thanks Mark....I haven't forgotten about ya...just waiting to get these things so I can let you know if I REALLY got a good deal! They are coming from Maryland and I live in PA so I'm expecting them this week actually!
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- Greg McCroskery Contact Greg McCroskery Greg McCroskery's Gallery |
Hope your lights work well for you. In regard to lightstands, there are several merchants on Ebay who sell very inexpensive lightstands. I own several that I use in my studio, and also use for light duty on-location shooting. I bought one brand new 10ft. stand for $8 plus shipping. Also, check out KEH.com for used equipment -- they are a first class company. Regarding shooting space, remember that for 1-4 subjects you don't need very much space at all -- I would avoid the basement idea. Some of the best individual portraits I've done have been lit with nothing more than window light and a reflector -- for one or two subjects it's hard to beat. Below is an example. Have fun! God Bless,
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BetterPhoto Member |
That is your best example. Thats why I don't like using artificial light, it looks so fake. I have never liked studio shots, thats why I moved to Miami and only shoot outside. If the weathers bad, I don't shoot. There are alot of studio photographers here, but I think the shots look tacky and unatural. JMO
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Mark Feldstein |
The two biggest problems with buying and using cheap light stands are under normal (vs. infrequent) usage, they tend to break, tumble, fall and have pop rivets pop out. They're also unsteady without placing sandbags on their base to support any reasonable load like a lamphead with a reflector and pair of barn doors. In my view, saving very little money on stands is false economy because its likely you'd have to replace them in normal use (buy them twice) and the injuries a shattered lamphead can inflict on a subject, say by spewing hot broken glass on them, from what I'm told anyway, can be pretty frightening. I'm sure you get my point. As to JBama's point, the reason studio photogs, including me, use artificial light is because we've learned the nuances and subleties of such lighting, we know how to control it with and without the presence of daylight and when you get down to it, with good studio lighting, whether focused or difused or otherwise modified, filtered or not, you can't tell the difference between artificial lighting and daylight. Knowing how to employ those elements is truly an art and skill. I think most studio shooters here would agree with that. Having the knowledge and equipment to do that also helps us command the fees we get for things like product shots or architectural or corporate work. I agree with Greg in that window light, particularly early day time or late afternoon, southwest lighting is And John, I'm wondering, for a guy with so much to say and who's been a member here for so long, where's your gallery here with some of this work you shoot in Miami? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm? Take it light kids.
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Oliver Anderson |
I was laughing when I saw John B's post...wonder who it is???? (longtime member insider knowledge) Totally agree with the problems with cheap stands. You have a $500 strobe and you have it6ft above the floor on a cheap stand. You can get a good one for $70??? I had a cheaper one that was lite weight and of course a rivet pops out on location...had to use a hairpin to hold up $1000 worth of light/equip....LAME on my part. Take it from someone thats been there....don't do that.
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Well I'm with Mark and Oliver on this....I know that when you buy cheap equipment in any realm of the world most often you get what you pay for and in the case of saftey especially since I will be shooting my children most often I will pay a few more greenbacks! I also want to keep my equipment safe too since I won't be getting my yearly bonus again for awhile! LOL! As for natural light vs. studio light! I like both...they both have something to offer in my eyes as long as they are done well! I have seen many natural light shots that aren't good as well because the photographer didn't know how to manipulate that light to make it work for whatever he/she was shooting! I'm sure my first shots with this light set will be atrocious, but live and learn! Thats what I say! I have yet to find one area of photography that I don't like....I'm loving it all!
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Everybody, I’d like to add a couple of things. About light stands, when I go on location the stand case is one of the biggest and heaviest cases. I will have at least 5 normal stands, and at least one mini stand. I may have a couple of C-stands. I know that people will pay a lot of extra dollars for a carbon fiber tripod, which saves them what, a pound? If I could find really good stands that weighed less I could save my back. You should consider going to a good retailer for your stands, you might pay extra, but you know what you will be carrying. A couple of things about working with light. A photon which came into existence in a nuclear furnace 93,000,000 miles away is not inherently different from one generated by a spark in an enclosed tube. There are difference, of course. I can use a strobe any time of the day or night. Since I shoot assignments from clients for a living nothing else will do. You can’t tell the president of a bank that you can’t photograph him in his office because the light is unnatural. The real problem with working with strobe is that the light you’re using to make your photograph exists for about a 1/1000th of a second. You can’t see that. So you must develop a high level of craft to create good light for your subject. To many photographers have one way of using lights and just pop the subject into that light. A craftsperson should create a light that is designed to make the best possible photograph of a subject, regardless of what the subject is. I think that there are two and a half important things about light, but if you ignore them your picture will suffer. The first is color. If you don’t get this right you have some chance to fix it, but if you mix the colors of light sources it will be difficult to fix. The second is the size of the light source, a really big light source acts entirely differently than a small light source. That nuclear furnace is a very small light source at this distance; and so creates hard shadows and difficult highlights. An overcast day is a huge light source (soft), look no shadows! The half thing is direction: critical with hard light and not important with soft light. Control over these things will give you good craft.
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Well I have everything I need except for a few bulbs. They got damaged in shipping because the guy let his wife package them! She didn't think they needed much padding since they had metal reflectors! Well needless to say I was not a happy camper when I got them and it doesn't seem that the seller is going to do anything so I had to lay down another $60 for some bulbs and once they get here I can begin scratching my head! LOL! I'm guessing on of these 3 lights is for the background, but not sure which one! Will have to see if I can find some info. on the net, but these days the internet seems to be lacking in information! I will post some of my first attempts here so keep posted!
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Debby A. Tabb |
If you post the link to the auction you won or list the kit you bought we can help. The backlight is usually the lowest wattage unit you have in the group. again light set up help on the studio Photography threads Part1: http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/QnAdetail.php?threadID=17534 will help with getting attention /posing /and doing business. wishing you the very best in your venture,
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Oliver Anderson |
Make sure you buy 4 at least so you have a backup...and $60 is NOTHING. Try buying 4 Profoto bulbs...yikes, used to carry on my replacement bulbs when I traveled.
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Aimee ! Try this outfit for everything "bulb". http://www.bulbman.com/ Click on their photo bulb/tube link. And get spare modeling lamps too. Also, UV coated tubes are a good investment for a couple of bucks more than standard non-uv tubes. If for some reason you can't find Speedotron tubes there (although you should) BHphotovideo.com sells them as well as a bunch of other places. Let me know if you have trouble finding them or at a good price.
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BetterPhoto Member |
men are always wrong, at least women think so , so with your gut on this one and make em pay.
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Mark Feldstein |
Aimee, I don't know which bulbs you're talking about, whether they're flash tube or modeling lamps. If they're the halogen modeling lamps, when you replace them, make sure the head is unplugged from the pack before removing the remains of the old bulb. Then use a piece of tissue or small clean cloth to insert the new bulb in the twist-lock connector. Don't touch the bulb with your fingers. Finger oil can cause the bulb to either burn out quickly or even blow. You also want to gently wipe off the flash tubes with a slightly damp cloth to clean them. Make sure they dry off completely before reattaching the head cable back to the pack. We're partying now, eh?
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Thanks for the link to the thread Debby! I'll be sure to check that out once I get rolling here! I can't wait! Thanks! Well I already ordered my bulbs thru Adorama Mark, but I did check out that place. Their prices were a bit higher and they didn't seem to have everything I needed anyway. I haven't gotten my blubs in yet, but Adorama had everything I needed and more. Don't think I got the UV coated ones this time! I spent all my alloted money even before I got the damaged goods so had to scrape up the $60 as it was! I'll be sure to keep that in mind for future purchasing though! Thank you! Not really sure what you are talking about John! Not much I can do to make the man pay. It is Ebay....all I can do is give him negative feedback, but Cest La Vie and I'll just move on! I had to order one flash tube and 2 modeling lamps. Thanks for the tip on keeping my oily fingers off the bulbs. I have touched them already when checking them right after I got them so I will have to use a soft cloth and wipe them down before testing this set! Thanks so much Mark! And also the set that I got is a Speedotron Brownline D802B
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Mark Feldstein |
Hi Aimee. I'm surprised that Bulbman is more expensive than adorama. That's news. Depending on how your lights were shipped, the guy who sold them to you can put in a claim with the shipper for the damage. UPS, for example, covers up to 100 bucks without charging for insurance (or added coverage). Keep the packing materials if you can or at least a photo of them if they're still around. It's worth trying to make a claim with the Postal Service as well, even without the added "insurance".
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
I wouldn't lie...maybe I wasn't looking in the right area, but the flash tube for my MW3U cost me $25 at Adorama and Bulbman wanted $34 for it. Well the guy who sold them to me has disappeared. I guess he figures he sold them...got his money now it's not his problem! I'm moving on....got my new bulbs in the mail today and horray.....they seem to be working just fine! Although I have never used studio lights before, if all the modeling lamps work and the flash tubes flash I consider that a good thing! Now I'm scratching my head like a monkey doing a math problem. I have no idea what to do next! I will have to try some research! All I want is a general idea of what light does what. Like which one is for the background? I think that would be a good place to start! Then I can begin to play! Once I do I'll be sure to post my first attempts here!
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Mark Feldstein |
While I appreciate your enthusiasm, the tendency of some is to leap in and start using packs with all the lights at the same time. That's fine but you may be easily confused by what you're doing vs. trying to do. John (Siskin) and I (among others, I guess) suggest that you start using one light at a time. Get a mannequin or a styrofoam wig head and put it on a stool in a dark room set about 10-12 feet from your lightstand set about 45 degrees from your camera position. You don't need a background to start with. Practice using one fill card, moving the single lamphead around at say 50 per cent power with a light modifier like a reflector, softbox or umbrella. Learn to control the light from one lamphead, add fill at less than your main later. Another handy item (though some here may disagree) is to get a clean used (simple to use) flash meter to measure the flash output falling on your subject. A combination incident/reflective meter that measures flash like a Sekonic is a nice way to go if you can afford a few extra bucks. Used meters are available on the Bay or at KEH.com. That will probably help eliminate a lot of frustration in looking at your camera to figure out possible exposure values although meters will require you to learn how to interpret them over time in terms of light and shadow. But as we say, it's all a learning curve. Be patient with yourself. Remember, styrofoam and mannequins don't talk back or say things like "are you done yet?". They make patient subjects. Good to know the heads are lit and all the lamps are working. Now, when you have all lampheads running, can you switch down the power by adjusting the pack? Did you get the manual for this rig? BTW, you still got a nice deal on this thing. Do you have a long sync cord or how do you plan to trigger these with your camera? I suggest if you're using what we call hard-wire to the pack, Paramount sync cords, available from B&H. Or a radio slave system of some sort. Pricey but no cords to the lampheads to trip over.
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Aimee, I agree with Mark about starting with one light. It makes it much easier to understand what is happening. I think that people should spend more time learning about hard light as well as soft light. You might want to examine this article: www.siskinphoto.com/magazine4d.html. You will certainly do better if you understand what one light can do before you try to use several. I would point out that a digital camera, especially if it is tethered to a computer, will give you much more information than a meter will. Perhaps this material from one of my classes will help: In teaching this class I keep trying to find ways to say that you have moved into the land BEYOND metering. When you use a strobe meter you get a response that tells you how to make a middle density, but it doesn’t tell you how to make it look right. There is no automatic way to make it look right, only the application of brains can do that. When I make a shot with strobes and a digital camera, the first thing I do is to put the camera on manual. The camera meter can’t read strobes, except for the proprietary strobe. So the camera meter is useless. I do not use a hand held strobe meter, it doesn’t give me enough information. The only things I pay attention to are the histogram and the proof image on the camera back, or, even better, an image on a computer tethered to the camera. More than metering these two tools tell you about your image. Let me suggest a plan for seeking the right exposure: 1) set the shutter speed to the sync speed, 2) set the aperture to your middle aperture, whatever that is on the lens you are using, 3) take a picture, it will be wrong, 4) move the aperture dial to let in more or less light based on test exposure 1, you can look at the histogram to help determine how much to change the aperture, but the proof image should tell you if you need to change a lot or a little. If you are using more than one light consider the balance of the lights. 5) more test exposures and changes of light placement and light power until the strobes are right, 6) change shutter speed to balance values between existing light and strobe light, this will require more test pictures. This same technique will work if you are mixing strobes and daylight. This was why the Polaroid bill was so high with film cameras, but with digital these test exposures are free, so we should not be afraid to make them. If you practice this you will actually end up being able to do this quite quickly. This is the essential trick with strobes, to evaluate and change our images in search of the right levels for our lights and our exposures. With the histogram and the proof image on camera or in the computer we have better tools for creating the right exposure than any meter could give us, but it does take repeated testing. If you use a hand-held meter you will get an answer, but very often it will be profoundly wrong.
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Sarah G |
tagging
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Hi Mark! Thanks so much for the advice! I will be starting out with only one light yet I still don't know which one! I would feel kinda silly if I were using the light intended for the background on a subject! I'm guessing the largest one with the 3 low wattage modeling lamps would be the background light, but that is just a guess! All of this is another language to me! I hope that after this holiday weekend I will get down to business and give it a shot! No maniquins, but I do have a teddy bear! LOL! I'm flat broke so what I have now is what I've got to work with for now! I didn't get the manual with it! I guess he didn't keep it! And from what I am seeing this may have been a thrown together set with one piece bought at a time because the ones that are for sale are a bit different. I'm so glad to have met people like you that are so helpful and knowlegeable! Thanks! And John I am simply amazed with your willingness to offer your expert advice on all of this! I do think I will be skipping on a light meter! Afterall you are right that I have a digital camera with a built in histogram and a decent set of eyes! Now that I have gotten into the wonderful world of photography I have learned that you could take a million classes on something and know all the jargon and tech stuff and still not be able to take a good photo! It's just something that you can see in your head or you can't. I'm hoping that I'll be able to figure it out as I have everything I've learned so far! I appreciate the advice on setting the camera up and where to start! That will be a big help! Now I just need to figure which of these plugs goes into the camera to sync the flash! LOL! I'm such a greenhorn!!!
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Mark Feldstein |
Aimee, I guess I've been doing this so long that metering flash and knowing how to interpret density from that reading and the film type is second nature to me. Histograms are ok, I guess although hooking cameras up to computers goes waaaay beyond my level of expertise and price range. LOL !!! You can probably get a manual for your pack directly from Speedotron on South Racine in Chicago. E- mail them off their web site, give them the pack model number, tell them the lampheads you have, serial numbers if you have them, and they'll probably provide one for nothing. Another reason to buy US made. :>))) (I luff dis countree). You may find that all the positions on your pack are ratioable and switchable. With the pack unplugged and power OFF, plug all three lamp heads in, power ON the pack, and one head at a time, start flipping switches and test firing the pack. You may discover that as each head recharges and you change power setting that you can change all three of them and they all have the same maximum and minimum output, depending on how the other lampheads are switched. Maniquin is spelled with an "i" eh? I KNEW that didn't look right. Live and lirn I guess. (g) Thanks !
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Aimee, I just wanted to mention that technical ability lies at the base of the entire history of photography. If you studied the careers of Nicephore Niepce, Sir John Herschell, William Henry Fox Talbot, George Eastman and C. E. Kenneth Mees, you would learn a lot about the people who shaped our way of seeing. A good eye is enough for an interior decorator, a professional photographer requires technique and business skill. Mark, I started with digital camera backs about ten years ago. The only way to make these early digital backs work was with a computer hook-up. The first one I owned required three separate exposures through a red green and blue filter to make a color image. This was unpleasant. Current methods to tether a camera to a computer are quite simple. Canon includes the software with their cameras, but tell no one it is there. Nikon charges extra, so no one buys it. If you get tethered you can see the image quite large with considerable information. Really it is better than Polaroid, and quite easy.
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey John. Not for me. I take a look at either a MF or 4x5 Fujiroid (I don't like the colors on Polaroid) and I can tell whether my exposure needs to be zero'd in and by how much, whether I need to add a touch of filtration, and how the contrast would look with a push/pull by x/3 stops at the lab and blast it with C-41, or E-6 and a b&w for good measure. ;>). I won't trust those decisions to even the printer unless I know them pretty well and have worked with them before. That's especially true with AR work and veg. I suppose if they quit making film in my lifetime, I quit as well. But then, that's just me. Hey, John, you coming up for the barn burner in October?
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- Greg McCroskery Contact Greg McCroskery Greg McCroskery's Gallery |
Aimee, Wow, this is the longest question thread I've seen! I have a couple other suggestions. Good studio lighting technique is a precise and involved subject. Shooting from the hip using trial and error is generally the hard, long way to learn. I really recommend that you invest in a good used flash meter (KEH Camera would be a good source), and also spend some time reading about lighting principles. There are many excellent books on studio lighting, and if you go to www.photoflex.com you will find free lighting lessons. Understanding the physics behind lighting is a profound help in making it very easy down the road. For example, once I came to understand the "Inverse Law" of light my understanding of light, subject, and backgound placement improved exponentially. Studio lighting doesn't have to be rocket science, but it is science as well as art -- learning the science part of it really makes the art part of it more consistent and predictable. Have fun with your new lights! God Bless, Greg
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Mark, Right now I don’t thing I’ll be in Monterey, as I have nothing to wear. That may change. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on Polaroid materials. In addition to Polaroid backs and a converted 110A I built a camera that shoots Polaroid with my Nikon lenses and a Polaroid body for my Mamiya C-330s. Polaroid was a wonderful product, because a person with experience could use it to create wonderful exposures and a person without experience couldn’t make heads or tails out of it. Digital is much easier. You get better feedback and more information. So it has been bad for my business. Most of the graphic designers I used to work with just bought their own cameras. Shooting tethered gives you a bigger image and even more information, but most people try to figure things out from the LCD on the camera, oh well. Hi Greg,
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Alright so what I said above obviously came out wrong! I don't intend to just eye it and hope all goes well. I was just thinking about a few friends I have that want to take pictures like I do and they go out and buy these REALLY expensive cameras and think they will have awesome shots! I do intend to educate myself as much as possible and am planning on taking one of your classes John! I see one starts today, but you caught me at a bad time.....we are currently broke after all my recent spending. I see the next one starts Oct. 1st, but it lasts 4 weeks and that is getting too close to the due date and I'd hate to miss out on the end of the class so I'll have to see what you have in store after those dates! I will see if hubby will buy me a class for Christmas along with renewing my BP gallery! :~) I am glad that my comment spurred these interesting debates.....they are very informative! This week I will be setting up my living room to give the lights a trial run. I'm blocking off the whole room so the kids can't get in and leaving everything set up for a few days so I can work. Thank you Mark, John, and Greg for keeping this thread going and for all of your wonderful advice and info.! More to come soon.....
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Well I get everything set up in my living room only to find that my camera does not have a PC sync port! Ahhhh! LOL! Now I must order a PC sync terminal adapter! The wait continues ladies and gents!!!!! I'm learning the hard way, but still learning non the less!
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Debby A. Tabb |
I know the D70 were built with out, I love the Cameras though and still own a couple. I find it works better better with the tiggers then sync cords, your system will be much more realible. I hope this helps, Debby I use LiteLinks found through Calumet.
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Oliver Anderson |
What Canon camera doesn't have a sync port.....Oh nevermind its a Nikon.JK
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Yes it's the Nikon D40 which I'm sure wasn't intended for studio use as it was for the everyday person wanting a bit more than a point and shoot! Well the piece I need is $20 so under the bed I go to see if there are some wrapped coins under there! Horray....I found two quarter wraps and some pennies too! LOL! Took them to the bank and then ordered what I needed. Should be here in a week they say! I did take the extra time to visit speedotrons site and found out which light is the background light. I'm also learning a bit more about the jargon as I didn't know what a PC sync cord even did before all this! Debby I don't really know what those are. For now I'm just going to get the bare minimum so I can try these things out. I'll keep that in mind for the future though thanks!
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Alright....I got the sync port so now I'm in business right? LOL! I have to laugh because I'm scratching my head like a monkey doing a math problem! So far I set everything up and put a teddy bear on a stool as my subject. I then tried taking some pictures only to figure out that I will have to leave the saftey of my semi auto modes and move to full manual. Using aperature priority I could get a decent shot of teddy, but the shutter speed was very slow due to the high ap. I had to use to get the exposure decent. I immediately realized that this just won't do for portraits of live subjects. So I had to sit down and do some thinking without touching the camera. Now my problem is that the camera is reading the light situation before the flash and in order to have a fast enough shutter speed for a live subject and have a correct exposure I'm going to need to move to manual mode to override my cameras senses so to speak. As I wait for my cameras battery to recharge I am now wondering where to even begin in manual mode. Any ideas of where to start?
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Connie J. Bagot |
I'd start at f/8, 1/125th sec. And then adjust the power of the flash until the exposure is right.....if the power of the flash is adjustable on your units.
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Thanks so much Connie....my set appears to only have 2 settings for the power of the flash. Full and 1/2 power. I'll start with those camera settings when my battery is done charging and play around a bit. I hope to have an example of my ventures later on today or tonight!
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Connie J. Bagot |
Another way to adjust the power of your flash is to move the units closer to and further from your subject. Or to lower the power of the flash, shoot through translucent material (ie soft box) or to bounce the flash from an umbrella or the ceiling or the opposite wall.
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- Greg McCroskery Contact Greg McCroskery Greg McCroskery's Gallery |
Aimee, First of all, congratulations on your baby! I pray that you have a very safe, and smooth delivery. Looks like you did real well for you first attempts the shot look really nice! You did a very nice job of posing too! I would suggest dropping the ISO to 100 as you really don't need to use 400 if you're getting f16 with your lights. Try to get to an exposure around f5.6 @ 1/60 - 1/125 Sec. Keep in mind that with flash, your aperture is what controls subject exposure. Your shutter speed will control the amount of 'ambient' light in the scene you are shooting. When shooting most portrait subjects, you won't need real fast shutter speeds. God Bless,
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Thank you so much Greg! I can drop my ISO to 200 as my Nikon only goes that low and I will work on getting the other settings closer to your suggestion next time! I can't wait to play some more....maybe my son will humor me tomorrow after school? LOL! I really appreciate your stopping by to let me know what you think!
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Hey what happened to Mark and John????
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John H. Siskin |
John Siskin
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- Tressie Davis Contact Tressie Davis Tressie Davis's Gallery |
tag
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Wow John that sky is fantastic! I would be a bad employee because I would have a to take a break to enjoy that view! You must be a morning person! What do they want you to take these pictures for if you don't mind my asking? I have used my lights only a little! Camera is out for cleaning right now, but I have a senior portrait to shoot Friday and a wedding reception to shoot Saturday! And Yes I'm 8 months pregnant now! I'm just not good at saying NO and I also want to make money with my camera on a regular basis someday so passing up things like this isn't a good idea! One thing I'm finding difficult is using a black background! I want it to look black, but when I was practicing it was having a red tone to it! Maybe I need to pull my light and subject further away from the backdrop? Sorry there are not 10 shots up there anymore. I had removed some and only kept the ones I can work with! Tomorrow I'll post my favorite reworked version of my pregnant SP!
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
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Oliver Anderson |
Go to the fabric store and buy a large piece of black velvet, or 2 if you want it larger then use fabric tape to put them together. You could always use a flash meter or white card to insure your whites are white and blacks are black.
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Amiee, There are two ways to approach the problem of insufficient blackness. The first one you mentioned, move the subject further from the background. The second Oliver mentioned: use a darker background. Rather than velvet you might want to try duvetyne, which is what is used on movie sets. It is generally cheaper than velvet and a little more durable. There are a number of supplies, try a Google search. You can check the values of your whites and blacks using Photoshop or many programs for tethering your camera. Very nice self-portrait! Thanks, John Siskin
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
What I have is a 10X20 black muslin. I could use a white card....that a good idea! I will give some moving around a try and see if I can get it to look better! I will also be checking it on my computer...didn't even think of that! I got my camera back tonight so now I can get to work! Thanks Oliver and John! Will be posting some with the black soon!
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Okay so it seems I'm afraid of getting too much light and it seems I'm not getting enough! When shooting kids on the floor should I lower my lights alot? Also when shooting do you want to be in front of your lights or behind them?
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Oliver Anderson |
Aimee, this is why Pro's and experienced people use flash meters...I'd be shooting them at 100s f/11 @100ISO. Lights for you can be placed at any angle or level to acheive different looks. I'd recommend you place the light eye level with a 24x30 softbox at least since you're trying to light the entire subject. Your other light can hit the lower torso. The lights might not be syncing properly either.
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Amiee, There is no one place you should position your lights. The idea is to position them in ways that help define the features in the subject that you care about. If the lights are in front of you, do be careful about flare. The key is practice and examination of your own work. Shoot in raw and do the final adjustment of exposure on your computer. Oliver,
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Oliver Anderson |
Point taken John, but you do OWN one and it doesn't mean you don't meter...I'm sure you either shoot in the same studio and know your setting by heart or use your in camera meter. I have shoots where I will utilize all 10 of my strobes and without a meter there is NO possible way I could manage without it. I truely believe you need to learn how to use both a meter and white card (Whibal) and it'll help...I'm sure you teach this in your courses John.
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John H. Siskin |
Oliver, I shoot all over the place, and I often shoot architecture where exposure is complex. I use a lot of lights also. I use my DSLR tethered to a laptop. This way I can actually see what I’m doing. In the same way Polaroid made it possible to do complex lighting with film. I can get density information and a histogram, what else do I need? What I can’t do, and I wonder if anyone can, is rely on a meter, and no visual feedback, to make good light. A light meter will tell me how to make middle gray. A screen will tell me know how to make good light. All my meter did was enable me to make a good guess. For the price of a good strobe meter my students could get an additional strobe, and they need that more. Thanks, John Siskin
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Debby A. Tabb |
Aimee, There is a lot about this on those studio threads I had mentioned before. When I teach, I suggest that you set your studio up like a Clock to start. background / backlight at 12:00 The main between 2:00 and 3:00 The Camera is at 6:00 and the Fill at 7:00 now test your settings until you get the desired FULL lighting, so everything looks to be good color. after that useing the same subject, turn off your fill and using your main do cresants in front of your subject,watching the light and how it falls on the face & body.
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Oliver Anderson |
Debby, Dont forget Cocktails at 5:00...Make mine a Vodka Tonic.
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Debby A. Tabb |
Oh yeah, I'm there! lol!
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
O how I wish I could have a "white russian" right now! LOL! Thanks so much all of you! So it seems I will need to practice on a patient adult! I was also setting my lights way too high it seems....almost to the ceiling and angled down too much! I do not intend to buy a meter. At this point I'm doing this just for fun and broke as well! LOL! I will take that great idea of clock work when I can find a good "dummy"! I will probably not be shooting until after the baby is born! Putting my "studio" away for a bit to clean house! "Nesting" I think they call it!
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Debby A. Tabb |
Good Luck with the new baby! Just Fyi, You can use a bean Bag chair for a Great comfortable baby poser. Again,best wishes, Debby * Comfortable poses are for Babies only.
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W. |
"I will probably not be shooting until after the baby is born!" So that when you HAVE a subject to take tons of photos of you will have forfeited all opportunity to practice beforehand and will have to reinvent the wheel from scratch? TBH, that doesn't sound like the most sensible idea to me if you want great photos of your little one, @imee.... Have fun!
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Debby A. Tabb |
Oh My! W.S. There is SOOOO much going on weeks and days before having a baby. besides how you feel over all! you try pushing a human out of a tired body ! Aimee, it should be fun!
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W. |
"you try pushing a human out of a tired body !" Debby, a fully pregnant body is in PRIME condition! It doesn't get any better than that. Ever! They have my blessing, but ought to realise that it precludes all other progress (as in this case, apparently). Which isn't necessary. That is my point.
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- Tressie Davis Contact Tressie Davis Tressie Davis's Gallery |
Everybody DUCK!!! :-)
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Didn't mean to start something here! I'm not stopping shooting with my lights because I'm tired! I'm putting them away because they take up my whole living room and I do have 2 other kids that like to use the living room now and then! And Yes I do feel tired, but I felt that way before I got pregnant! My other two children are driving me nuts! Ah the joys of motherhood! LOL! Thanks to all for the well wishes and little tips! :~)
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
I'll have to repost many of my studio shots that I have done recently because I took them down to fix a few things and uploaded them again! I totally forgot that they would disappear from this forum!
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