 Pat Harry |
Legal questions - quotes & objects I'm not really sure where to put this question, but I'll start here. If I photograph an object that is easily recognizable, but no logo or name is shown, can I use the image in a photo for sale? For example, everyone in the craft and probably school industries knows that orange-handle scissors are Fiskars. As long as the name or logo doesn't show, can I use the scissors in a photo to sell? Next question - famous quotes. If I make a greeting card and use a quote on the card(giving credit to the author of the quote), can I use that quote on a card that I sell? Thanks!
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Raymond H. Kemp |
As far as your quote question is concerned, check out the Stanford site for some great info on this subject. Very informative site! http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/index.html We will need some more info as to the intent of the image sale. Commercial such as an ad, editorial, art, etc. Ray
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Pat Harry |
Thank you for the link! The photos will be sold (I hope!) as either stock photos, or on greeting cards. Most likely as images on greeting cards.
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Raymond H. Kemp |
First, let me state that I’m not an attorney and that I’m sharing what is considered common information concerning photographs with incidental depiction of trademarks. Photographs containing a trademark on an object warrant particular attention if the object with the trademark is “used in a way that can cause confusion regarding the affiliation of the trademark owner with the image.” (World Intellectual Property Organization) A best method remedy would be to remove the trademark from the image using Photoshop or similar editing tool. You see this all the time for ads with someone with a camera around their neck and the camera’s logo on the prism is clearly blacked out. WIPO’s web site used a boy with a Nike logo on his shirt as an example. The image being used for commercial work (advertising) would clearly be seen “an attempt to appropriate consumer goodwill associated with the Nike trademark.” (World Intellectual Property Organization) Many stock agencies require that trademarked logos do not appear on the image. If you are uncertain about the use of an object for a commercial use as in an ad or for stock then check the objects fair use guidelines if they have one. Fiskars does have a fair use guideline on their web site. And if you’re really spooky about an object then try to obtain written permission from the owner of the trademarked object. And finally you may consider retaining an attorney that specializes in intellectual property. There a lot of things to consider and you need to weigh the financial return of the image in question. It may not be worth the time and money to address the legal issue of the trademark and you may be better off to remove the item from the image and replace it with something that does not pose as great of risk. Good luck! Ray
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Mark Feldstein |
The shortest distance between where you seem to want to go is to ask the author or manufacturer for written permission based to use photos or abstracts, etc., of their copyrighted works, telling them exactly what you want to do with them. Failing that, however, the best and most prudent thing you can do is to find a lawyer in your geographic area who specializes in intellectual property including copyright, patents and trademarks. You can find such specialists by calling the lawyer referral service of your local county bar association. If you talk to a lawyer in a consultation, your communications are protected under the attorney-client privilege whereas here, they're not. At some point, specific facts you provide here which are NOT protected under those types of privileges could be used adversely to you in any infringement action later on. So if you want to take the law into your own jaws, so-to-speak, take them to a lawyer you can buy some time from as an investment in your business, sit down and talk with them. I'm certain Ray means well. Nonetheless, while the site he notes at Stanford is excellent and a fine source for background info copyright issues as are the NOLO Press books referenced there, a lawyer specializing in these areas can provide you with a written opinion on their letterhead based on the nuances of facts you convey. In turn, that letter may serve as your best defense (advice of counsel) if you're sued for infringement at some time down the road. You can go to internet based lawyers, but if they're not a member of the bars in your jurisdiction (state and federal courts) any opinion you get from them may not be reliable. Also, their e&o insurance may not cover them for out of state practice. BP is a nice place for getting photographic advice, but as to legal issues, unless it's strictly a straightforward administrative question like how to get a copyright on a photo or where to get a business license, etc., then asking for legal advice here is like asking Southwest Airlines how to prepare a steak. You just need to be a really good consumer about these things. I'm sure you are or you wouldn't have asked in the first place. But remember Pat, you get what you pay for.
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Debby A. Tabb |
And of course there is nobody here who can have an opinion that differs in anyway from Mark's or they are fired opon and belittled! as seen in many a thread! I am so glad they took your last bit of rants off.
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Pat Harry |
Hmm.... I didn't see anything in Mark's response that was discourteous. (Or maybe your meant to be, and it just went right over my head!) Thanks to all of you for your responses. They were very helpful. Not what I wanted to hear, but helpful! I know what I needed to know - it's complicated. I own and operate a scrapbooking store (online), and plan on adding a small notecard section. I was going to use photos related to scrapbooking, but pretty much everything I photograph will be recognized as a product put out by xyz. Nothing is generic. So I'm paranoid about taking any photos of any supplies. And I think that is rightly so. It's not a logo issue, because I know not to show those. It's simply the ease of recognizing a product. So maybe I'll drop the idea of using photos of scrapbook supplies, and find something a bit more generic. Thanks again. I appreciate the input from everyone.
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Debby A. Tabb |
sorry Pat, in referance to another post, on the same type of subject. He let me have it for no good reason. And before I could respond they removed it. I just want it to be clear, everyone will have different opinions.(and the right to them)
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Todd Bennett |
Pat, You said "I own and operate a scrapbooking store (online)," What's wrong with asking your distributors, suppliers, etc. if they will be able to provide you with a property release?
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Pat Harry |
Yes, I can do that. And I may for the few brilliant card ideas I get :). My first thought was that it would be a huge effort, but now that you've mentioned it and I've thought about it, it probably isn't nearly as big an issue as I originally thought. Thanks!
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Mark Feldstein |
Yeah Pat, as I mentioned earlier and as Todd suggested that's usually the shortest distance between two points. Just ask them for permission but be pretty specific in your request. I guess Ray and I were writing our replies about the same time.
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Mark Feldstein |
Oh and pardon deb. She doesn't say much sometimes . . . especially when she's talking. deb, don't you have something more important to do like an important wedding to shoot, a bar-mitz-vah maybe, some very important phone calls to return, an important suitcase to pack for a very busy week of travel teaching the olin mills method?
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Samuel Smith |
mark,given some of our childless natures and some bullying,and to let things pass.so the nature of maturity passed you by..being so called right.. so,my offended cookie,offended,as you may see,a pompous!! what was the question?
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Todd Bennett |
Pat, To add a little to my earlier comment. I was asked to take some shots of the inside of a design center. It so happens that the design center also belongs to the building company I work for. The design center has appliances, flooring displays, plumbing displays, etc. for our clients to look at. I asked the reps, contacts, etc. if, I needed them, would they be able to provide me with a property release. These photos were/are going to be used on our website and in advertising. We have displays from Delta, Frigidaire, Shaw Industries, etc. The response was 100% yes they would get them for me if I needed them. As it turned out I didn't need them; but, as Mark said in his initial post, the easiest way to get what you need may be to contact them directly. Because their items are being displayed, you will more than likely get approval because they want the publicity; as long as they are being portrayed in a flattering manner. You need to make sure it is in writing; but, it should be fairly easy to get and probably worth the time.
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Pat Harry |
Thank you, Todd. I think I'll do something simple, with limited products/manufacturers and see how receptive they are to the idea. Thanks very much!
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Debby A. Tabb |
Ahhh, This is about me being so busy. Don't worry I'll always make time to respond to you,Mark. and I have gotten your messages on how you believe, my method of teaching is flooding the market with photographers. I'm sorry it makes it easier for others to understand and succeed. But again don't worry if your a good photographer you'll be just fine. You just can't be a nice guy can ya? Have a great day.
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Pat Harry |
You two remind me of my teenage son & daughter. :)
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Debby A. Tabb |
LOL,LOL I Know it's redicules
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