Bob Cammarata |
For Pros,...What's a Fair Price? I work for a large catering company (my real job) and I've been asked by my employers to provide some photos to upgrade the company website. We have a lavish grand-ballroom wedding reception scheduled for this weekend at our largest facility and they have asked me to "shoot the room" prior to the arrival of the guests to show future potential customers different upgrades and options available. I will need to be quick and mobile during a very hectic setup time and get high-quality images of the room layout, display work, ice sculptures, table settings,...etc. They are hesitant to hire a pro for this project because,...in their words,..."They will want to spend a half hour setting up each shot". The web designer and company management needs around 30 images from which to choose the ones that will eventually end up on the site. I have a plan of what I'm going to do but am unsure what to charge. What would a professional photographer charge for this type of project?
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Mark Feldstein |
Seriously??? I'd charge them about 4K for the deal. 30 images is a lot of work. 30 QUALITY IMAGES is even more work. So, that fee would include my time before, during and after the shoot, at least 12 hours, two assistants to help with each set up and to be leap-frogging from one to another; transportation; film, processing, scanning, my equipment including my strobes, cameras, lenses, and my expertise in getting rigged, set-up and shooting in less than a half hour, usage rights, and reusage fees or add an extra $1k if they want to buy the images outright. The difficult you can do right away, the impossible costs more dough. You estimated say 3 hours shooting, that's 180 minutes and 30 shots, that gives you six minutes per shot if you only made thirty. To cull down to thirty, let's say you need 90 serviceable shots. If you had three hours to do that, that brings you down to 2 minutes per shot. C'mon Bob, do you honestly think you can do quality set-ups, lighting and shooting in two minutes per view? Food shots no less? And how much time fixing each shot to color correct, etc. afterwards??? Whew !! I'm beat just thinking about it. And doing it yourself? No. I think not. Honestly Bob, I think they're just being cheap. Catering companies and restaurants tend to be that way almost as much as real estate agents. But when I look at pricing these kinds of things, I always look at the value of the job to the client. What's my work worth to them in terms of increased revenue through their marketing/ advertising. Also, there are other ways to do this that are more effective than doing a Charlie Foxtrot in three hours at a venue that's going to be crawling with guests. Try this: Get in, shoot the hall interiors, some close-ups of tables, decorations and capture the general ambiance. Then, shoot the food on a closed set at the catering co. shop. one-dish or a couple of dishes at a time. Yeah, they'll have to prepare them for the shoot. But you work there so you don't have to keep coming over to shoot. Just make a table top set-up, rig a background or two, use that and pop the food down to blast it when you have a chance. Don't try to do the whole deal in three hours. Yikes !!! Even though it's about time for Halloween, that's a bit too scary for even me, LOL !!! And tell them to shop around.
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Bob !!! I hope it wasn't something I said. Mark
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Jerry Frazier |
Bob, Also, as a wedding photographer this kind of thing pisses me off to no end. It just is so irritating. I WILL BE DOING THAT STUFF AND PROVIDE IT TO THE VENDORS THAT WANT IT. So, why do they need someone else getting in my way (and, before you say anything, they always say they wont be in my way, and in every case, they are). The reason is because vendors don't think things through, even though you'd think they'd be pros at it all. They send you in there to do all this detail work. Meanwhile, I'm outside shooting stuff, or I'm somewhere doing formals with the couple, and I send my assistant to shoot detial of the room. But, they can't because you are there with your lights, and doing your thing. It's very annoying. This is NOT the time to do a job like this. The caterer needs to either get shots from the pro WHO IS CONTRACTED ALREADY TO DO THIS. Or, to do a mock set up, and have you shoot. In fact, in my last scenario, that's actually the way they should do it. OK, I'm done ranting. Have fun with the shoot, and get paid a fair amount. Also, if the pro is like me, he has an exclusivity contract which you are breaking - sort of. Ah! When will this stuff stop? And, you know what REALLY floors me, since I'm on the subject? It's NEVER a pro doing this. It's always some guy with a Digital Rebel charging $100, thinking, 'what's the problem, man?' I'm one of the most cool, easy-going people around. But, this is a hot button. Do you know why? Because a pro would not take a job like this. They would know that the time constraint would make it a failure. It would be impossible. And, I'd be coming in doing shots, and we would be working over each other. Plus, their price would make it unattractive compared to the uneducated $100 guy with a Rebel who thinks it's fun. I'm done. Cheers,
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Mark Feldstein |
You know guys, as I thought about this and re-read Bob's initial question, I started to get a bit irked myself. Not at you Bob, but your employer because they're really putting you in a really awkward position. They're asking you to provide them with a pretty valuable service and they're implying they want this on the cheap essentially because they don't want to pay a pro to do it regardless of reason(s). That's clearly a message that says they don't want to pay pro fees and, IMHO it's got nothing to do with set-up times. What difference, afterall, does it make how long it takes to get set-up if [s]he is working for a fixed price??? Beyond that, however, is the other equally significant issue of what happens if you blow it, for any reason? Pixels get lost, cards don't work properly, files get lost and that assumes the images are technically good to begin with and as you know I'm sure, food ain't easy to shoot anyway. So, if you overcharge, they're going to dislike you. If they don't like the work, they may not like you; and if they put you under a deadline you can't meet for some reason, they won't like you. They're your regular employer. I'd bow out of this deal gracefully and tell them to hire someone else, as much as I'm sure you'd do a consciencious job to the best of your equipment and abilities. If it wasn't your regular employer, I'd say go ahead. Otherwise, nope. Tell them you don't have the lighting and optics to do their displays justice. And wait'll they see the equipment rental bills !!!!
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Jerry Frazier |
Bob said: "We have a lavish grand-ballroom wedding reception scheduled for this weekend at our largest facility and they have asked me to "shoot the room" prior to the arrival of the guests to show future potential customers different upgrades and options available." Make sure you ask exactly how much time you will have. In my experience, 10 minutes prior to the guests arriving, they are still putting table cloth on the tables. Trust me, it's not this well oiled machine that is ready in plenty of time. And, if this is the case, what is the wedding photographer going to do when they are shooting for their clients, trying to get beautiful room shots, etc for their client, but you are there? Mark has some great points too. I have heard this several times where employees are taking jobs from their employers. This is a conflict of interest, IMO, and kind of dangerous. Most wedding photographers worth their salt take all the detail room shots and will provide images of some sort to the vendor. All they have to do is ask the wedding photographer. It will cost them less to do that than it will to pay you to do it.
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Jer, I didn't know Bob was shooting the wedding for this deal too. Is that right???? YIKES !!!! Yeah, and believe me, I KNOW what you mean when you say not exactly a well-oiled machine. LOL !!! Take it light guys. Mark
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Bob Cammarata |
Thanks Mark and Jerry for your comments. ...Sorry for not responding sooner but I've been away for a few days shooting fall scenics in the Virginia Highlands...(Really beautiful there.) OK,...Here's the deal: First of all, I will not be competing with any pro who was hired to shoot the wedding reception. Typically, he or she arrives at the ballroom with the bridal party and my work will be finished by then. I was asked by the caterer, to whom I'm employed, to shoot a few rolls of the room setup and the display work PRIOR to arrival of the guests and bridal party. Catering is a fast-paced, hectic business. Our goal is to have the rooms ready to accept guests 1/2 hour prior to the scheduled start times no matter how tight those change-over times might be. We pride ouselves in achieving that goal most of the time That said, the ownership of the company asked me to do this because they needed someone who understands the time restraints AND has photographic knowledge and good equipment. I'm certainly not going to quote them $100,...or $4K. (Maybe somewhere in between.) Bob
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Jerry Frazier |
Hey Mark, I didn't mean that Bob would be shooting the wedding. What I meant is that the wedding photographer will shoot the room, the details, and should be shooting all the same stuff as Bob. All the vendor has to do is talk to the wedding photographer. Most wedding photographers happily provide those images to their vendors free of charge. If they don't provide them free of charge, well, they aren't all that saavy.
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Mark Feldstein |
Oh, I got it Jerry. I never thought a wedding photographer would either do something like that or even have time for that on the day they're shooting the wedding. Man, I'm glad I stayed out of that part of the biz. I don't know how you guys do what you do, and do it well. M.
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Bob Cammarata |
Jerry, The photographers we work with are most commonly contracted directly by the clients we host..(i.e. the B&G or their families.) Sure, we have our "house photographer" whom we promote and are obligated to recommend during wedding finals (for a fee), but more often than not they end up booking their wedding photographer on their own. I'm curious,...is it really ethical to ask someone who is working for someone else to shoot advertizing material for the caterers for free? That said,...I presented my terms and they were accepted so I'm going forward with this project with great anticipation. Bob
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