 Alex B. Smith |
Photos Aren't Sharp I was wondering what one has to do to get crisp and clear pictures out of a D-SLR. I have a 20D with a Canon 28-135 f3.5 IS lens. I usually shoot under P mode, and increase ISO when it gets a little shady, but even in sunlight, they dont turn out crisp. I always have the IS on and I use L quality. I don't get it. Any ideas?
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- Carlton Ward Contact Carlton Ward Carlton Ward's Gallery |
Hi Alex, You should go to a camera store and ask if you can use one of their 28-135mm lenses and go outside and do some test shots to compare if you may have a soft lens. Use a tripod and shoot at various focal lengths & apertures at a brick wall with both lenses (like 50mm at f/8 or 75mm at f/4) and look for differences. I am not familiar with the 28-135 but I turn IS to OFF when using a tripod with my IS lenses. Sometimes you just get a bad copy of a lens. You mentioned you use "L quality". I am not sure what you mean by this because L is a distinction of the best Canon lenses and the 28-135mm is not an L lens nor in the same league as the 24-70mm f/2.8 L or the 24-105mm f/4 IS L lenses. These 2 lenses will give you much sharper images because they are built better and are higher quality throughout. My friend used the 28-135mm and he was able to produce sharp images but he recently upgraded to the 24-105mm, so now his 28-135mm doesn't make it out of the bag anymore. And, even with a sharp lens, digital images often require some sharpening when processing the images with Photoshop or other editing software. I doubt that your problem is the 20D itself, and it is most likely your lens is a bit soft or possibly you are using too slow of a shutter speed while hand-holding for a shot. Also, learn to shoot in TV, AV or Manually and avoid P setting if possible. I don't want to discourage you and please ask if you have other questions. I have had "soft" copy lenses before and had to trade them out, and I have also made plenty of mistakes while learning to get sharp images with proper exposure. Hope this helps - Carlton
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- Carlton Ward Contact Carlton Ward Carlton Ward's Gallery |
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/
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Jon Close |
Agree with Carlton. Additionally... - Are you using a "protective" UV filter? Try without. - P mode often chooses to wide-open aperture. As good as the EF 28-135 is, stopping down to f/5.6-8 (choose Av instead of P) will be sharper than at f/3.5-5.6.
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Anonymous |
I've got the same problem Alex. I got a cheap body 10D. It must be the sensor because I've tried prime lenses and its kind of here and there. You have to use the center sensor point or forget it. Even then its a crap shoot. If the lighting is perfect you've got better chances, but how often is that. I would love to get one of the bodies with the "sweet spot". You know where all the sensor are together so if you're off a little' it'll pick up the slack.
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Pete H |
Alex, Problems with "sharpness" can have several causes. Number one is usually the lens. This can be determined with some basic experimentation; just make sure you have a good baseline. (i.e) Don't change FL, focus manually and shoot f/stop consistently on the same subject. Use a tripod. Then try different F/stops. Lenses have a sweet spot (diffraction limited) around f/8-f/11 are where the sharpest images will form. #2) Many people complain of "fuzzy" photos. It would help to see an example from you. The subject is often the culprit. Shooting at wide angles at trees for instance generally produces unsharp images. This is not a camera problem and often not a lens problem. Tree branches and leaves are known as "fractal" in shape. APS size sensors have a tough time resolving such shapes..even moreso at a distance as the image projected on the sensor is VERY small and traverses few photosites. Lastly; experiment with IS off and on. I have seen a few IS/VR systems go bad where the optical elements are not on axis due to the constant shifting. all the best, Pete
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Alex B. Smith |
I uploaded a typical picture to my gallery. I only have one picture there. When I reviewed the properties of the pictures I took that day, it turns out that Program mode on the camera had to choose a wide-open F/stop and use a long exposure time. The exposures were as short at 1/50 and long as 1/6. This even at an ISO of 800. Under these conditions is it just hopeless without a tripod? The pictures look great in the 1.5" LCD, but when you download them, you realize that are not so good after all. I am new to digital photography and must get some experince so I know what to expect in whatever light conditions I find myself in. Having said that, other pictures ive taken that had exposure time of 1/250 and Fstop of 11 didnt turn out crystal clear either. perhaps it is also an issue with the focus metering as somebody suggested. The focus points selected simply will not allow for a clear picture? I have the metering on all focus points.
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Pete H |
Ahh, now we are getting somewhere. Thanks for the example Alex. The basic problem here is two fold. 1) Hi ISO ..and; the real culprit; too slow a shutter speed. Although you have a IS lens, 1/50th sec at 135mm is really pushing it. That is almost 3x your chosen focal length. Typically, a IS/VR lens is usable up to 3x the FL. "Up to" are the key words assuming a steady hand. A basic rule of photography indicates to shoot at or faster than the FL. In your situation, a (non) stabilized lens should be shot at about 1/135 sec or faster. (Stabilized) should not exceed 1/3 of that; or 1/45th. The 20D camera above ISO 400 will certainly have noise (grain). So you are dealing with two problems here that compliment eachother well, (i.e) fuzzy pics. all the best, Pete
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Alex B. Smith |
Pete, thanks for the help. I thought that SLRs produced great images even at high ISO, and only the compacts had grain issues. Considering the fact that the camera thought there was way too little light, what is one supposed to do? My lens is 28-135, so even though the picture may have been taken at 28, I still have to do the math using the 135 focal length? Is a tripod the only solution under such conditions? Then the exposure math no longer is a factor because there is no shake. Perhaps a faster lens is also an option. What metering mode do you like to shoot? all points, or centered?
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Pete H |
Alex, You always want to do the rough math. "Is a tripod the only solution under such conditions?" A tripod is used when you can not hand hold the shot. ALL sensors will suffer from noise (grain), yes; a compact point & shoot has more noise than a DSLR..This is due to sensor size and somewhat with processing algorithms for the sensor chip. Size counts! LOL " Then the exposure math no longer is a factor because there is no shake. Perhaps a faster lens is also an option. What metering mode do you like to shoot? all points, or centered?" A faster lens is always desireable..and always more expensive. Metering mode: This is totally dependent on the subject matter you are shooting; but has nothing to do with image "fuzziness." "what is one supposed to do?" Your choices are few in low light situations. 1) Faster lens...best choice 3) Get more light on the subject.
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R K Stephenson |
Another thing to consider is the aperture. It looks to me like the focus is on the tree in the middle of the frame. At f/4, you're going to get some fuzziness on the guys at the edge of the frame, even at 28mm. Re: "Perhaps a faster lens is also an option" A faster lens will only exacerbate the depth of field problem. Re: "What metering mode do you like to shoot?" With the 20D you can safely use evaluative metering in most situations. Unless there is back lighting, a real high-contrast situation, or a problem like bright snow/sand, evaluative does a pretty good job in the 20D/30D/40D series. Cheers, RK
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- Carlton Ward Contact Carlton Ward Carlton Ward's Gallery |
Hi Alex, Everyone has chipped in with a lot of great information. I would add 2 other things to the discussion and that would be to maybe use some fill light (look into investing in a 430EX or 580EX flash), and I would also remove the UV filter. When I first started out, I bought UV filters for all of my lenses. I no longer use them at all. Placing another optic (the filter) in front of your lens can make images worse if they are not the highest quality filter. Since I am now shooting with mostly L glass, I don't use any UV filters at all (I keep my lens hood and lens cap on all the time anyway for protection) and only use a top-of-the-line circular polarizer (B&W Kaeseman 77mm) and sometimes ND filters for doing waterfall/landscape images and ALWAYS with a tripod. I do believe one of the biggest differences between a pro and a hobbyist is that the pro will lug their tripod with them everywhere. I have also noticed that my 40D does perform much better at higher ISOs than my 20D. This technology will continue to get better & better. I also use the histogram to view my images on my LCD screen rather than trying to see details of a photo on a 2.5" screen. The histogram will give me much more real information about the image. There are lots of threads and online classes here at BetterPhoto that address many of the specific issues we are discussing, so keep reading and asking questions.
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Walter Turner |
Like many I have hundreds of 35MM slides which I would like to transfer to CD. Ihave an HP 4070 scanner which does have the slide carrier, What is the best method of transferring these slides? I do thoroughly enjoy your newsletter & hope to take one of the courses you offer. We have photoshop elements 4. Any advise You can offer would be appreciated. Many Thanks W.Paul Turner Ancaster ON
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Roy Blinston |
I have had a 20D for about 3 years. Not had any problems whatsoever. Your settings appear to be OK. The "L" is for quality setting (meaning Large File, other settings are M for medium size file, and S for small file (low quality). I always use Manual setting (only very rarely do I use anything else). I just tried 2 test shots for you, one using Manual and the other using "P" mode. As expected, no difference whatsoever. Both sharp etc. As some of the previous comments suggest you may be handling it wrong: low light, camera shake, etc etc. The Image Stabiliser can only do so much stabilising. Your 28-135 lens sounds like it is not a "long lens" (shake etc) which means something else is the problem. Your comment of... "I usually shoot under P mode, and increase ISO when it gets a little shady, but even in sunlight, they dont turn out crisp." This sounds a little strange. For a start one would not really have to increase ISO, on a sunny day, even in the shade, unless you want very fast shutter speeds. Even a cheap pocket digital camera will give crisp pics on a generally sunny day, even in the shade. My suggestions are do the previous suggestions above... and then use every setting on your camera with "test shots". First try AUTO, then MANUAL, then P mode, then the others. Photograph the same subject from the same distance etc, preferably in general light (outdoors mid afternoon etc). This method must give you some results for you to eliminate and find the problem.
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David Boesch |
If you're coming from the Point and Shoot world then you will be horrified at what you see from the 20D with a variable lens. That's due to P&S cameras automatically applying modifications to each image like high contrast, saturation bump and sharpening. I firmly believe you'll find the answer in Sharpening which Carlton hinted at. You need Photoshop, but do NOT run for the sharpen filter. Instead, try this: My first recommendation would be to shoot in RAW mode. I never shoot in "L" mode on the 20D. This will give you a world of additional control that L-mode cannot offer. Be sure NOT to sharpen or reduce noise in RAW mode. Next, open your file and create a new layer. People differ on the next mode of action but I've always pulled down from the EDIT menu to FADE UNSHARP MASK. From this window select LUMINOSITY (at the bottom of the pull-down) and click OK. This prevents "halo" effects in the bright spots. Lastly, with sharpening comes extra gritty artifacts in darker areas. Since your sharpening is on a separate layer you can now use the ERASE tool to remove the UNSHARP action from areas that do not need to be sharpened. This adds extra finesse and you'll get a feel for it as you work in different lighting environments. This in no way negates the other suggestions here for they are all key in capturing the sharpest image when the shutter is activated.
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Nancy Donnell |
Hi Alex, i was so glad you posed your question. I have always thought that my 28-135, that I use as a primary all purpose lens, was NOT that sharp, evn on the tripod. I confess, I did not know to turn off the IS on a tripod, and I always shoot with a UV filter. or polarizer if called for, on that lens when shooting, so I will have to try some of the suggestions. I have friends that love their 24-70 lens, but for me it is as heavy as my 100-400, and I just did not want the added weight. Also, I do not own any, but know you can buy sharpening programs.
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Alex B. Smith |
I am finding, at least for this particular lens, then even if there is what I would consider plenty of light, a wide open aperture is the only way to reduce the shutter speed such that I dont get blur(aside from increasing the ISO of course) even with IS. As with all lenses, the 'in focus' point being in the middle of the aperture range, typically around 9-11, I never seem to be in a situation that will allow me to use it, unless of course I lug a tripod around with me or I point it at the sun. As for the software sharpening, I was unaware that pretty much everybody feels it necessary to sharpen their digital photos in PS or some other program. And other's apparently go hog wild with colors and saturation adjustement. That is fine for professionals working on a project, but I dont have the time or desire to fudge every single one of my photos. I need to experiment more with my system, as it is relatively new to me. The 20D allows me to set its saturation, which I do so liberaly, so I would hope that takes care of any color issues that PS would otherwise take care of. However, I appreciate David's suggestions and will give them a try. I beleive, however, that a blurred image can not be fixed with sharpening. It just improves an already good image. I sharpen all of my scanned photos.
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R K Stephenson |
Hi, Alex, I don't know if this will be helpful but if the constant blurriness at medium shutter speeds is a technique issue there is something you can do to both identify it and possibly help fix it. Try setting your drive to H/multi. Squeeze the shutter with just a bit of a delay before releasing it. You should then get two shots in quick succession. If you're inadvertently 'pulling' the camera when you fire off a shot, the second shot will be crisper. If that turns out to the be problem you can concentrate on technique for squeezing off a shot and, hopefully, cure this problem. Cheers, RK
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Nancy Donnell |
Great suggestion, RK!!
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Lynn R. Powers |
Alex the best thing for you is to take the course BP offers on using the Canon 20D, 30D and 40D. The second thing to do is stop having the camera think for you. It is going to include things that you don't want or vice versa. I live in the Pacific NW and very seldom use an ASA of 800. The only times I routinely use 400 ISO is under overcast skies while on a Tour boat trying to photograph Orcas with a 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS. I know that the L you are refering to is for Large format and not the lens. Keep your focus point for the camera in the center of the viewfinder. Once focused keep your finger pressing halfway down on the shutter until you have recomposed if you need to. Your lens is considered "slow", not for focusing speed but in aperature. The f3.5 is OK for the wide angle pictures but when at 135mm will close to f5.6 which is OK for a nice sunny day. You have to hold the camera steady. It is very simple to do. The shutter speed should be a minimum of 1.6 times the focal length that you are using. Start using the Av on your camera. Set it for f4, it will go to f5.6 automatically as you zoom, set ISO to 200. Take photos and hold the camera still. Do you use a card reader to download your photos? You should for a mirad of reasons. Purchase PS Elements 6 Take camera course and the one for Photoshop Elements. Read the Cameras Manual, mine is kept in my camera bag and goes with me in case I forget something. Good Luck Lynn
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Jerry Frazier |
I don't know why this issue isn't discussed more in forums like this. However, I've owned 5 20D's and they did have sharpness problems. I was never able to pin point the problem exactly, but I defintely suspected that it was shutter movement or vibration of some sort. I couldn't prove it, and Canon denies it. But, I was discussing this issue with other professional photographers, and we all did various tests, like shooting with flash on a tripod, etc. And, in situations where there should be no movement, the images would sometimes be not sharp, or slightly blurry. The only thing we could conclude is that there was some sort of shutter slap/vibration that was going on with the 20d. To make things worse, and I have no idea why, combine that issue with the 24-70 2.8L lens, and you have a whammy of back-focussing and shutter vibration, or whatever. I've discussed this before, only to have Pete and others tell me I'm wrong. But, I'm right as I look through past images of client shoots and see blur after blur after blur. I also know I'm right as there were other professionals having the same problem. As soon as I started shooting with other bodies, I had no issues at all. So it wasn't me. And, yes, I know what I'm doing. I went to 1D series bodies, and I had no problem. Now, I shoot with 5D's and have no problem. I also never had that issue with my 1V film cameras. So, I am convinced there is something about the 20D. Although, Canon, and others who support Canon, deny the issue. So, whatever. But, I do think it is a valid concern. As someone who shoots thousands of images a week, I do know the difference. And, my 5D's work as they should. I still have a couple of my 20D's, and the behavior is imtermittant. Sometimes, they work perfectly, other times, over half the shots are just not sharp liek they should be. Just adding another perspective from actual field experience.
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