 Cheryl Plank |
Paint Shop Pro Vs. Elements I am looking for your user reviews regarding Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo x2 versus Adobe Photoshop Elements 6. User friendly? Satisfied results? Thanks!
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John P. Sandstedt |
I doubt that there's a comparative user review out there, especially one from a nore typical user [amateur or intermediate.] But, why not go to amazon.com. That sight includes user review for almost everything they sell. There should be reviews of each application; you can print one or more and compare features that are described [pro and con.] I don't know much about Paint Shop Pro Photo 2; however, its name suggests, to me, it is NOT in the same class as Elements 6.0. Elements remains a program for those that want as many Photoshop features as can be crammed into an application that meets a < $100 price tag. It still doesn't include Curves, arguably one of the best tools in the Photoshop arsenal. Pro Photo 2, which includes that word "Pro" would seem to be aimed at a different "level" editor. Hence, you might not be comparing apples to apples. Perhaps, you should also look at Adobe Lightroom. Check out Pop Photo, Shutterbug, Outdoor Photographer - there's got to be reason why most of the photo-editing articles use Photoshop products.
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Richard Lynch |
Elements 6 does have curves, but that aside, it is an over-rated feature. I use it on about 2% of the images I correct professionally. I find there are nearly always better ways. It is a common misconception that Photoshop has a slew of tools useful for image editing that Elements doesn't have. I used to write books about just that till I found I was fighting a losing battle: people somehow want to believe that they need to spend more on Photoshop. I continue to make tools to support Elements users - http://hiddenelements.com - and these tools add features that may be thought of as 'missing', like channels, lab separations, even CMYK separations and certain work-around equivalents for Curves, as well as masking tools and more. Paint Shop is a pretty robust program, but so too is the German made PL32 ... and few have even heard of the latter. Even though these programs are very good in their own right, there is a decided advantage in using a product as well-documented as Photoshop/Elements. I teach courses in those programs - Richard Lynch's Photoshop courses - and don't in the others - for example, more because I can't focus on every product on the market than that I feel they can't do what people need. Many people who write about image editing feel the same way. This doesn't mean much except that it will be easier to find books, courses, tutorials, and other support materials for Elements and Photoshop before you'll find them in such volume for any other image editor. Any program you get will have a learning curve ... but the resources available for Adobe products may make getting over the hump that much easier. I hope that helps!
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John P. Sandstedt |
Hi Richard - Friends, who have Elements 5.0, say it has a 5-choice [or something] kind of Curves feature, but that it's not the "big Curves Tool. I'm assuming the 6.0 has a similar tool, especially because almost every review of the Program I've read decries the fact that Curves [like that in Photoshop 7.0 through CS3] is not included. Also, it's not mentioned at all, as the "complete" tool, in the Adobe info I looked at from Google. I read you'd created a Curves Plug-in for Elements 3.0, but that Adobe did something so it couldn't be used in ELements 4.0. What is the correct situation?
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Anonymous |
Cheryl, first of all what would you like to do with the program. If you know someone in college or go yourself you can get the newest version of photoshop for $200. Only thing is you don't get the manual. You probably won't need it though. Most people I know just experiment or go out and buy quick help books for specific actions they want to acheive.
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Richard Lynch |
John, the curves are somewhat limited for Elements 6 and Elements 4. Elements 5, 3, 2, and 1 have the standard interface (though it is hidden and needs to be brought out with my add-ons (not a plugin). For all I use curves for, the Elements version added for 5 and 6 does what you need it to do. If you lean to heavily on curves, they are likely being overused and may do more harm than good. Adobe says Elements can't do a LOT of things ... they do that because they want to keep selling the $600 program more than the $60 one. The Curves tool for Elements 1,2,3, and 5 is standard. In elements 4 and 6 it is not available, but you can do exactly the same corrections using Gradient maps. Paul, you raise the all important question: "what would you like to do with the program?" Regretfully most can't answer the question as they aren't sure what it does...and likely that is the best time to begin exploration by getting Elements (unless you are into 3D rendering, medical imaging, voluminous CMYK work, automation/scripting, and 16-bit broader support). It is discouraging to see beginners getting the $900 version of Photoshop because they figure if the $600 version is good, the $900 version must be REALLY good...but the fact is there are features in it that few people need. Elements was built to handle common needs for image editing, and it does that well. The additional money you save might be spent on other accessories, and Elements will provide a good arena for learning if you ever need Photoshop.
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Cheryl Plank |
Thank you gentlemen for your detailed responses! I am looking for the opportunity to do some artsy things with my pics, along with normal editing. I did download a trial of Paint Shop Pro Photox2 and will attempt the same with Photoshop. Thanks again! Cheryl
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anonymous A. |
I think your try-first approach is very sensible, Cheryl. I have both programs, but find I no longer use Elements other than to check a feature when someone poses a question or gets stuck in the Adobe offering. X2 had a few glitches when first published, but were quickly ironed out and it now works quickly and well. One advantage with X2: existing customers get offers of additional licences and upgrades at between $19 and $50, which has allowed me to maintain the lastest versions without busting the budget. Their software also comes with excellent software guides and additional resources.
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Todd Bennett |
Cheryl, If I'm not mistaken, Paint Shop Pro offers a 30 day trial. I suggest you give it a shot. I've used X for the last year or so and it does all I need. I do my best to get everything correct so that all I need to do with the program are minor adjustments.
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lindsay king |
Cheryl, I've tried both and I have to say that for me, Paint Shop Pro completely serves all the purposes of creative editing and practical fixing I need. I did try Photo Shop, and while it did have a few more features than Paint Shop Pro, there weren't impressive enough to spend the additional money on Photoshop. Happy shopping :) Lindsay
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Cheryl Plank |
Lindsay, Todd, David, Thanks so much for your input. It really does help. I have been working with the trial versions of both programs and learning by doing. I'm hooked. Advantages to both, and I haven't decided yet. But I am certainly considering all the comments I have received. Thanks to all! Cheryl
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anonymous A. |
Now that you have been "hands on" for a while, Cheryl, I'll add: I have never found anything that could be done in any version of Photoshop that couldn't be done in PSP; and done faster, easier and cheaper. The big advantage that Adobe has is its user base, which results in magazines and websites devoted to teaching people how to achieve different effects in the program(s). Since virtually all Photoshop plug-ins work in PSP, and virtually all the demos can be followed in PSP if you need to, it is not as big an advantage as it first seems, especially since PSP is so much more intuitive and has a great user base and forums on line, not least at Coral. How are you finding the editing?
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Cheryl Plank |
David, I appreciate your input. I have found features I like in both, but am tending to use the Corel more. I still haven't figured out how to do layers other than borders and framing. That's where my interest is, making a photo unique. But I must say my photos that I have manipulated look much sharper and have more polish. Since I don't have a camera that takes lenses, filters, this is great! I get the look. (My camera is capable of so much, but technically I'm not a techie). Cheryl
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Todd Bennett |
Cheryl, If you purchase Paint Shop Pro it comes with access to some video tutorials and I believe layers is one of them. I'll be glad to check for you this evening when I get home to see if that is one if you'd like, although, David may have the answer now.
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Debby A. Tabb |
Richard, I am about to look into another version, I now have Vista and wonder if there is something that works better with that. I have PS 7.0 now. And as anyone can tell, my computer and PS skills are very limited. So I have looked at your course and am seriously thinking about it. I am wondering what program you prefer, just personal preference? Thank you,
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Richard Lynch |
Debby, I work in Photoshop and Elements in approximately the same way...So I only have a preference if I don't have access to my tools (see http://hiddenelements.com) or want to work in more fully supported 16-bit (which is most of the time). There are few reasons I choose Photoshop over Elements, and that is the most valid; that and I don't have a cost issue due to arrangements with the manufacturer so have both at my disposal. There are a few features in Photoshop I use that are not available in Elements with the tool sets I built. These help me do things that most believe are 'impossible' with Elements. Frankly, most things are possible if you develop the right techniques, and Elements is all most people ever need. On the other hand, I also use many of the things I built for Elements in Photoshop when using Photoshop as I prefer the methodology I developed using Elements. When at my own workstation, Elements and Photoshop remain open, mostly because the courses I teach cover both and I like to be sure I'm making the right references. When I work my own images, I prefer full 16-bit support as stated, so I end up using Photoshop more often for that reason; whether it provides a real difference or not is not definitive or measurable -- I could argue the point that it may make no difference at all. CS3 and Elements 6 should both be optimized for Vista, where PS7 was released far before that OS and will likely not behave optimally with it. Which course are you considering? All are offered to work with Elements or Photoshop. Richard Lynch
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anonymous A. |
The full version of PSP comes with video a video tutorial on layers. Layers is very easy to use in PSP. Go to View/ pallettes and make sure the Layers pallette is showing (or press F8) to make it easier still. To add a layer, Right-click the current layer in the layers palette and choose the kind of layer you need: you can also duplicate, merge etc by right-clicking, or use the Layers menu. I think tht even the trial version includes tutorials. Go to the Help Menu or press f10 to show the Learning Center.
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Richard Lynch |
David, Making layers in any of these programs is not hard, and likely doesn't require a tutorial -- just to make them. In fact many people make them and don't know why, how, or what they are good for. Using layers to their best advantage is more of a challenge, learned behavior, and art, as well as an involved part of image correction. Richard Lynch
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anonymous A. |
Well that's true enough, Richard. But the tutorials are a lot more extensive than that. Nor am I trying to persuade Cheryl not to take your sourse; I'm sure she would get a lot from it.
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Carrie Pagliaro |
I have to agree that the biggest issue is the PSP is just not the industry standard. I have been using psp for years for general editing stuff. Now I am taking photography seriously, and I want to learn advanced techniques in photo editing, I am finding that there is just not any classes or support out there. Even youtube only has a handful of tutorials. I do like psp, I like it isnt expensive and it has alot of great features and I already know how to use it fairly well. But am now having to look at shelling out the big bucks if I want to expand my photo editing skills. It’s a bummer.
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anonymous A. |
Corel has lots of on-line tutorials, and there are PSPO user groups if there if you nned them. All Photoshop plug-ins and filters work in PSP, too. I remember when all these arguments were applied to word processing. The only program to buy was Wordperfect: it was the industry standard, ll the tutorials and commenrcial training was abour Wordperfect. Gradually, the more user-friendly Word took over (well, it came pre-installed on just about every Windows-based PC). Get a big enough user base and the rest follows: PSP survived (and did better than survive) for years as shareware: with Corel Corporation behind it, who knows how the market will shake out? I try to keep up with Photoshop tutes, but so far, I haven't found anything that doesn't work in PSP...if you want to go to the bother.
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Richard Lynch |
If you are using the program on your own (not as a professional hoping to transfer skills to a job where they use Photoshop) it is likely you can make PSP do anything that Photoshop can. I have been telling people for years that even Elements can do 95% or more of what most photographers really need...regretfully most people don't listen, and some even buy the Extended version of Photoshop for $300 assuming that if they pay more they will get more...the $300 goes to 3D manipulation tools, medical imaging specialty features, and more highly specialized features few people will ever use. My point, get Photoshop Elements if cost is an issue. You will have to live without most of the flexibility of 16-bit editing, CMYK conversions will not be automated (few people really need this), and you won't be able to record actions... However, if you already have PSP, there isn't enough difference to warrant a switch unless they made profound changes in the interface. Admittedly I haven't looked at it since PSP6 (when I edited a book about it), but even then the products were so similar that I was sometimes confused as to what I was working on. A little patience and you can translate tutorials into PSP language. So I agree with David there. Elements is quite a mighty program...but any of the image editing programs will likely take care of your needs if you learn to use them to their potential. Richard Lynch
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Carrie Pagliaro |
Thanks for the info. Would you say that a person with PSPx2 could take one of the online classes here for PS if they had the ability to translate between programs?
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anonymous A. |
I just read through the answers again (you forget, don't you? Well, I do) and noticed many references to 16 bit editing: PSPx2 does handle 16 bit processing seamlessly; its Curves feature is not a cut-down version, and for Layers: some of my tutes on Qassia might interest you: http://www.qassia.com/blend-modes-in-photo-editing or http://www.qassia.com/repairing-damaged-photos-with-paintshoppro or http://www.qassia.com/double-exposures-and-merged-photographs.
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