- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
Gaming the Favorites system The display on the default page when I come to BP seems to be based on the images that get the most favorites in a given amount of time (maybe since the change over to the new and improved BP, maybe it can be re-set every so often). I just got six favorites in less than a minute on one image and not the image that I entered today - actually I haven't even entered today. I have suspected for some time that the numbers can be "gamed", and this pretty much confirms it for me.
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- Harriet Feagin Contact Harriet Feagin Harriet Feagin's Gallery |
I appreciate it a great deal when someone "loves" my photo. I assume that "Love" is the same as a favorite. However, I don't think this should play a role in anything, anywhere, for any reason. It reminds me of elementary school. Again, I "love" photos that really catch my eye and I appreciate it very much when my photo is 'loved". But it is what it is and should be nothing more than that or it can (and will be) abused.
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
Well said, Harriet, and this expresses my feelings on the matter. I enjoy knowing that someone particularly likes an image, but I want the number to be meaningful to me. And it's not if one person can give me multiple favorites on the same image. I also agree that the sign-in page with images prominently displayed in the order of number of "loves" or whatever they are called is, to my mind and taste, juvenile.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I agree. I don't know WHO is gaming the system, but for sure somebody is. I got 17 likes on a less than great, or even good photo, and I sure didn't put them there. I can't imagine that random people did, either. I rarely get more than 3 or 4 likes since I don't comment. If you don't comment, you don't get them, simple as that. If you do, it's from a good friend who knows you don't get many. The most I have gotten since they started them is 12, and that one didn't even get an EP..although it was a resubmit and one that IMO did deserve some likes. If you will look back in the QnA you will see where I questioned the 17 likes on the one I mentioned at the start of this post. It was a TKW Day shot, and I don't even pay much attention to those, usually, since they are just for fun. That one wasn't even sharp. I just plain don't believe it would have gotten 17 likes on its own. Something ain't right, people. I hope they aren't basing any contest winnings on this sort of stuff, because it's just plain not fair.
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Monnie Ryan |
I've put this in another discussion thread, but I still think much of this is related to Jim's 3rd video in which he explains the "score." Every 90 days, the person with the highest number of points will win a camera. Points are earned in several ways, including hitting the "love it" button, making comments, when other people "love" your photos etc. A natural result of this, to me, is that the number of "loves" will shoot up dramatically - and I think we're all seeing this on our photos (well, I know I am - I've been here lots of years and never had this many people make my entries favorites. Just a thought.
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- Ken Smith Contact Ken Smith Ken Smith's Gallery |
Monnie, I think the issue is that some folks are getting a bunch of "Favs" on a photo, in disproportion for the number of comments. True, the new BP score goes up if you fav a photo. But one person can't fav the same photo over and over, to have their score go up. And like Carolyn, I noticed one person had 17 favs on a photo, but only two comments. I'm sure it could happen, but the odds are pretty low that a person would fav a photo, but not comment on it. And the 17 favs occurred within a few hours of the photo being uploaded.
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Dalne M. Dola |
I agree, Monnie! I also think that much is gained by interacting and acknowledging others work! Jim encouraged that, as well as enthusiastic site participation. I made sincere comments and felt more comfortable the more I did. I have received EP's and have had no comments from others. If I get an EP wonderful, if not so be it, just as long as I enjoy what I am doing. Life's too short, be happy and excited!
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Monnie Ryan |
Ken, it's possible to "favorite" the same photo over and over (including my own). I don't do it so don't shoot the messenger, but it's quite easy. Whether that would make my score go up I don't know, but my bet is it would.
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- Lindley Johnson Contact Lindley Johnson Lindley Johnson's Gallery |
I just checked by faving one of mine three times - it worked each time - it works to unfave them, too, because that's what I did next.
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- Joannie Bertucci Contact Joannie Bertucci Joannie Bertucci's Gallery |
Sounds like a BIG flaw in the system if it can be abused so easily!
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- Ken Smith Contact Ken Smith Ken Smith's Gallery |
Monnie and Lindley, thanks for the update. I thought you could only fav a photo once. I remember awhile back, BP offered contest consideration for those photos that had the most "favs." Hopefully they will double-check their business rules. But it doesn't explain why Carolyn and Nikki had a spike in Favs for a couple of their photos.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
You can fave your own more than once. That's why the faves shouldn't be used for any kind of perks. Or they should fix it where you can't fave more than once on any given shot.
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
I received five favorites and email notifications of them all at once - all five emails said 4:07 p.m. Then I checked the image and sure enough this surge was reflected. Like Carolyn, I did not do it and I've never given my own photo a favorite. I actually think whoever is doing it is trying to point out how flawed and silly the system is, Carolyn.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
Yeah, I think you might be right, Nikki. I got 17 likes yesterday, but on this one, I'm not sure. I did get a lot of comments I normally don't get, and this one is a pretty good shot, so I can't say this one is deliberate. We'll just have to keep watching to see what happens. Most likely, they will be able to fix it so you can only fave once on any one photo.
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Danny B. Head |
I'm not sure how I stumbled on this discussion. I have all but given up on BP. I now only post my images in order to transfer them over to my website. This is done so that I can advise anyone wishing to buy an image, a place to view the gallery. I almost never comment, thus I almost never get any comments. One thing that has really confused me lately is that I am getting favorites and no comments whatsoever. Who would "fav" an image without a comment?..... and this is on several images posted on different days. ..... seems there is "funny business" going on here.
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- Jill Odice Contact Jill Odice Jill Odice's Gallery |
Out of curiosity I tried "Loving" one of my images. It said "You and 4 others love this image". I went back and "Loved" it again...and nothing changed. I logged out and logged in and "Loved" it again, still no change...They must have fixed it :-)
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Monnie Ryan |
Once you've made a photo a favorite when you're logged in the regular way, you can't do it again (and as far as I know, that's never been possible, but correct me if I'm wrong). There's another way, and no, it hasn't been fixed - I just tried giving 2 faves to 2 different photos and it worked find. And, my "score" went up by 4 points as well.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
It's not fixed. You can't do it the way Jill describes, however.
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Susan Williams |
It would be nice to see the name of the person who favs an image. That would eliminate or expose gaming. An anonymous fav without a comment is rather meaningless for the photographer, the viewer, and BP, as well. Hopefully, the images are judged on the basis of technical and artistic merit and not the popularity of the photographer.
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tony W. austin |
LOL I still have no more than 2 faves on my pictures LOL, guess no one loves me :-)
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- Beth W. DeBor Contact Beth W. DeBor Beth W. DeBor's Gallery |
A flaw in the system is that when you make a comment but don't hit send before you click on the love it button, your comment gets deleted; and of course, the site has been running really slowly lately so if you click on the heart more than once, I wonder if it's possible it could register more than once? I also clicked on the love it button and mine was the first. I clicked second time and it removed it; however, when I went to the next picture and then back again, there were three likes and I was able to click on it again. Definitely a flaw. I would like to see an edit option for when you want to add, remove or change a comment.
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- Harriet Feagin Contact Harriet Feagin Harriet Feagin's Gallery |
If someone has a lot of "likes" on a photo, it is on the opening page. Would this not encourage more "likes" since other photos are last in line so to speak? I don't like the "like" aspect at all. I have received a gold badge on a photo and not had a comment much less a like until after the fact. One photo in my gallery has several comments and a few likes but did not even get an EP. The like system is not professional and is immature. I most likely will renew at the end of this month but then again..... by then I may be fed up with this elementary school game. This is not to take away from the great photos submitted by fellow members, rather, it is to say that these photos speak for themselves.
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BetterPhotoJim.com - Jim Miotke Contact Jim Miotke Jim Miotke's Gallery |
Just to let you know, we are working on fixing this. Will let you know.
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- Betty Ann Kelly Contact Betty Ann Kelly Betty Ann Kelly's Gallery |
Very interesting discussion! I have to admit that I am one of those people who "fav" a photo sometimes without commenting. Why comment when a gazillion people have already said what I would say? I do often comment when only a few have done so or if I am the first one. Let's be real folks...the comments are always all positive. While I love any positive comments I receive, I would love to get constructive criticism too and I never see that. I appreciate any "favs" I get but often wondered if there was a select group or clique that just favs each others photos all the time. I enjoy Betterphoto but do see that photos that are blurry, poor comp, have lots of noise, etc that get EPs and it doesn't make sense. Poor photos that get picked while excellent ones don't (not talking about mine...although I feel some have been overlooked). Oh well....
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- Natasha Pliss Contact Natasha Pliss Natasha Pliss's Gallery |
Betty Ann, I couldn't say it better myself and agree with you 100%. I can sign under every word you wrote and have nothing else to add. I also comment only if I am the first one or when I see just a few comments. Why add one more "gorgeous"? And EP's... that's another story. When I see beautiful technically perfect photos that are overlooked I want to scream: What is so wrong with this picture? It's impossible to understand and does not make any sense. Something should be changed in "EP department". Oh well....
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Tammy D. Ferren |
I agree Betty and Natasha. I will also press the heart for a photo without commenting. It's nice to see that someone 'hearts' your pic, and I don't necessarily think comments are always necessary if there's already a bunch of glowing comments. And the whole EP system has gone plum crazy. Some of mine will get one and then one next to it that is actually a better picture won't get one. I don't expect that all of mine will get one......but consistency would be nice. To be able to say, that one didn't get one....what did I do wrong? How could I improve it? But, you can't do that when there's no rhyme or reason whatsoever to their system of awarding EP's or any other awards, for that matter. I have tried to make sense of it until I am just through. I always used it as a challenge to make myself grow in consistency of making better pictures. Now it's just a joke, quite frankly. I look in the thread at the pictures ya'll post, your faves that didn't get an EP, and it makes no sense whatsoever. Okay, rant over. Sorry.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I have to agree. There is no rhyme or reason to the EP process. They just passed up one of mine with 12 likes on it, and for the life of me, I can't understand why it would be passed up any time. (it's my 10/10 entry, Fishing In Paradise). Maybe they will pick it up next time they go through, but I see no reason it should ever be passed up. (can you tell it's one of my favorites?)
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I have to agree. There is no rhyme or reason to the EP process. They just passed up one of mine with 12 likes on it, and for the life of me, I can't understand why it would be passed up any time. (it's my 10/10 entry, Fishing In Paradise). Maybe they will pick it up next time they go through, but I see no reason it should ever be passed up. (can you tell it's one of my favorites?)
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- Harriet Feagin Contact Harriet Feagin Harriet Feagin's Gallery |
I know that something so subjective as photography will have disagreements. I sometimes don't understand why one of my photos is skipped and I sometimes don't understand why one is a winner either. I do wish that the EP awarding system could be more standardized or at least more timely. And, I still don't like the "like" system being used for any sort of ranking. However, it is still nice to give and receive "likes". It is what it is..
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
PS -- on the topic of the "landing page" showing photos sorted by Likes... I changed my landing page to always be Recent Entries, shortly after the new BP2.0 roll-out. Lots more rotation/variety that way... the "Likes" landing page was always sort of static for me, each time I came into BP. (And I usually want to go right to "Recent Entries" anyway, so this just saved me a step.)
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- Irene Colling Contact Irene Colling Irene Colling's Gallery |
I agree with Christopher. I want to see a variety of pictures, when I get onto Better Photo. Using the 'most loved' setting results in seeing the same pictures over and over again. I have faved pictures without taking time to comment. I didn't realize that comments were expected in order to show admiration for an image and add it to my favorites.
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
I have no problem receiving a like or love it or whatever it's called with no accompanying comment. What bothered and bothers me (it happened again recently) is receiving multiple likes on the same image at the same minute. This cannot be coincidence, especially since I rarely get likes, and can only be the result of someone, somehow giving out multiple likes. I appreciate their enthusiasm - wow, I really really like this punch, punch, punch, punch - but it really renders the count meaningless.
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
Where can I change the "landing option" to Recent entries. I see that in the bar across the top, but it doesn't give me recent entries.
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- Peggy Pfister Contact Peggy Pfister Peggy Pfister's Gallery |
Here's where I did it, Nikki: My Profile > Notifications, Subscriptions, & Preferenced > Home Page Preference.
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- Peggy Pfister Contact Peggy Pfister Peggy Pfister's Gallery |
Oops, typo. Preferences, not Preferenced.
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- Ken Smith Contact Ken Smith Ken Smith's Gallery |
Thanks, Peggy. I was wondering the same thing and just changed mine to Recent Entries. I was searching under the "My Photo Shows" and wouldn't have thought to look under "notifications and subscriptions."
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
Thanks. Got mine changed, too.
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